WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.920 --> 00:00:07.813 Gov.si, the Government Podcast 2 00:00:10.283 --> 00:00:13.090 Welcome to our new Gov.si podcast, produced 3 00:00:13.211 --> 00:00:15.950 by the Government Communication Office. 4 00:00:16.071 --> 00:00:19.963 I'm Zoran Potič and I'm joined by a very interesting guest, 5 00:00:20.103 --> 00:00:25.516 Nina Gregori, who has an extremely interesting career behind her 6 00:00:25.657 --> 00:00:31.100 and ahead of her. She has worked abroad since 2019. 7 00:00:31.257 --> 00:00:38.590 She can tell us what her job is and why it's so interesting, 8 00:00:38.703 --> 00:00:40.856 if that's the case. 9 00:00:41.077 --> 00:00:44.601 First of all, thank you for inviting me. I'm pleased 10 00:00:44.722 --> 00:00:50.169 that I can be here. Since 2019, I have been working 11 00:00:50.317 --> 00:00:53.189 in Malta, were I'm the Executive Director 12 00:00:53.310 --> 00:00:56.129 of the EU Agency for Asylum. 13 00:00:56.250 --> 00:01:01.495 Before 2022, the agency was known as the European Asylum 14 00:01:01.616 --> 00:01:06.500 Support Office, but we got a new, stronger mandate, 15 00:01:06.637 --> 00:01:10.996 and we've been known as the Agency for Asylum since then. 16 00:01:11.117 --> 00:01:15.796 Its mandate is to assist 27 member states, 17 00:01:15.917 --> 00:01:17.597 and it's based in Malta. 18 00:01:17.717 --> 00:01:22.053 We'll return to your work later. This podcast is devoted in part 19 00:01:22.168 --> 00:01:24.374 to the 20th anniversary 20 00:01:24.495 --> 00:01:26.863 of Slovenia's EU accession. 21 00:01:26.997 --> 00:01:30.283 You have a wealth of experience in this area. 22 00:01:30.411 --> 00:01:33.071 What are your memories of the period 23 00:01:33.205 --> 00:01:35.072 when Slovenia joined the EU? 24 00:01:35.208 --> 00:01:38.632 And how did your experiences contribute 25 00:01:38.778 --> 00:01:41.337 to your professional growth? 26 00:01:41.458 --> 00:01:48.161 I'm proud to say that I grew up in Slovenia's administrative system. 27 00:01:48.312 --> 00:01:52.360 I began my career at the Ministry of Internal Affairs 28 00:01:52.497 --> 00:01:56.787 and spent my whole life working there before going abroad. 29 00:01:56.908 --> 00:02:01.560 In 1999, when we became a candidate for membership, 30 00:02:01.679 --> 00:02:05.580 the accession negotiations began, and we had to adapt 31 00:02:05.701 --> 00:02:09.999 Slovenia's legislation covering internal affairs, 32 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:14.420 from Chapter 24 of the EU Acquis, 33 00:02:14.509 --> 00:02:18.560 I was the member of a working group 34 00:02:18.667 --> 00:02:21.159 at the Ministry of Internal Affairs, 35 00:02:21.262 --> 00:02:24.892 where we began the process of adapting the legislation. 36 00:02:25.014 --> 00:02:27.048 It was a large working group, 37 00:02:27.200 --> 00:02:31.563 whose members also worked with the Justice Ministry. 38 00:02:31.745 --> 00:02:37.017 It was a very positive period of my life and career. 39 00:02:37.138 --> 00:02:42.053 We worked a lot but we also had plenty of drive, 40 00:02:42.162 --> 00:02:45.690 so the results were apparent very quickly. 41 00:02:46.131 --> 00:02:50.246 The periods when we were tested as candidates 42 00:02:50.367 --> 00:02:52.685 in Brussels were very interesting. 43 00:02:52.805 --> 00:02:59.800 They checked if our legislation was in line with EU legislation 44 00:02:59.950 --> 00:03:03.376 to such an extent that they could close Chapter 24. 45 00:03:03.510 --> 00:03:06.883 We collaborated with the Foreign Ministry 46 00:03:07.010 --> 00:03:10.143 and the newly founded European Affairs Office. 47 00:03:10.297 --> 00:03:15.540 Mr. Potočnik was the head of the core negotiating team, 48 00:03:15.683 --> 00:03:20.443 Mr. Bavčar was the Minister Without Portfolio for European Affairs, 49 00:03:20.577 --> 00:03:23.230 and Mr. Rupel was the Foreign Minister. 50 00:03:23.350 --> 00:03:26.536 They coordinated the work of all the ministries, 51 00:03:26.697 --> 00:03:30.663 while we at the Interior Ministry had our own working group, 52 00:03:30.784 --> 00:03:34.834 which was headed by State Secretary Debelak. 53 00:03:35.021 --> 00:03:39.310 Mr. Genorio was also very important. He is still active 54 00:03:39.431 --> 00:03:41.778 in foreign and European affairs. 55 00:03:41.997 --> 00:03:45.163 We not only had to coordinate the legislation, 56 00:03:45.303 --> 00:03:50.863 but we had EU funds available to do that. 57 00:03:51.003 --> 00:03:54.716 Through the projects, we could also adapt other things, 58 00:03:54.863 --> 00:03:58.610 not just the legislation. For instance, we had to start 59 00:03:58.750 --> 00:04:03.036 issuing EU documents in 2004, when we became a member. 60 00:04:03.157 --> 00:04:06.483 We had to adapt these things to the EU, 61 00:04:06.623 --> 00:04:12.663 so I've been traveling to Brussels for these meetings since 1999. 62 00:04:13.763 --> 00:04:17.423 You haven't grown tired of them? -I haven't. 63 00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:21.723 My enthusiasm about the European idea is growing even stronger 64 00:04:21.877 --> 00:04:27.180 because I strongly believe that Slovenia is a part of Europe 65 00:04:27.310 --> 00:04:31.263 and can play an important role, as we've repeatedly shown. 66 00:04:31.436 --> 00:04:38.309 It would be nice to see some more European spirit at home. 67 00:04:38.423 --> 00:04:44.303 We'll talk about that later. 68 00:04:44.430 --> 00:04:49.056 This European spirit... You've headed your agency 69 00:04:49.203 --> 00:04:51.936 for five years. 70 00:04:52.197 --> 00:04:56.763 A few weeks ago, you got another five-year mandate. 71 00:04:56.903 --> 00:05:03.216 Does that mean that your bosses are satisfied with your work? 72 00:05:03.343 --> 00:05:09.617 You're a Slovenian in an administrative position 73 00:05:09.743 --> 00:05:15.557 who is at the highest level of the EU structure. 74 00:05:16.223 --> 00:05:20.660 I should make it clear that the European Agency for Asylum 75 00:05:20.777 --> 00:05:25.600 is one of 54 decentralized agencies, 76 00:05:25.750 --> 00:05:29.209 where the jurisdiction is clearly defined 77 00:05:29.383 --> 00:05:32.636 by a special regulation. 78 00:05:32.837 --> 00:05:37.803 We have links with the European Commission 79 00:05:37.977 --> 00:05:42.156 and Commissioner Johansson is currently 80 00:05:42.317 --> 00:05:46.523 responsible for internal affairs on the EU level. 81 00:05:46.643 --> 00:05:50.310 The Directorate-General for Internal Affairs, DG Home, 82 00:05:50.450 --> 00:05:54.977 has the authority to oversee the agency. 83 00:05:55.123 --> 00:06:01.120 The selection of the Executive Director 84 00:06:01.257 --> 00:06:04.089 is the responsibility of the member states, 85 00:06:04.210 --> 00:06:08.229 so I'm happy that the confirmation of my five-year mandate 86 00:06:08.383 --> 00:06:13.300 was unanimous. All 28 members of the board, 87 00:06:13.457 --> 00:06:15.836 which represent the member states, 88 00:06:15.990 --> 00:06:19.490 made it clear they were satisfied with my work 89 00:06:19.650 --> 00:06:24.303 and would like me to head the agency over the next five years. 90 00:06:24.437 --> 00:06:30.980 The mandate of the agency has indeed grown stronger. 91 00:06:31.101 --> 00:06:36.809 As you know, the Pact on Migration and Asylum 92 00:06:36.930 --> 00:06:40.363 is currently being drafted and approved in Brussels, 93 00:06:40.517 --> 00:06:44.670 and the agency will play a key role in implementing it. 94 00:06:44.830 --> 00:06:47.783 If you could describe that in more detail... 95 00:06:47.970 --> 00:06:51.316 Asylum, migrants, and refugees: these are topics 96 00:06:51.457 --> 00:06:58.400 that aren't just interesting for Slovenia, 97 00:06:58.517 --> 00:07:00.603 but are a Europe-wide issue. 98 00:07:00.810 --> 00:07:07.157 You say that the role of the agency has been strengthened. 99 00:07:07.290 --> 00:07:11.836 In what sense? What will change? What's new about this pact? 100 00:07:11.943 --> 00:07:16.369 In terms of migration management on the EU level, 101 00:07:16.490 --> 00:07:18.840 this comes under EU jurisdiction. 102 00:07:18.970 --> 00:07:22.256 The member states retain a measure of sovereignty, 103 00:07:22.377 --> 00:07:24.756 primarily in the field of asylum 104 00:07:24.883 --> 00:07:27.643 because they make decisions 105 00:07:27.777 --> 00:07:33.429 about who gets asylum and who doesn't. 106 00:07:33.637 --> 00:07:41.629 However, migration management is entirely in the hands of the EU. 107 00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:48.403 So the jurisdiction of a country in the asylum process 108 00:07:48.524 --> 00:07:51.410 remains in national hands? -That's right. 109 00:07:51.543 --> 00:07:55.669 But the policy is becoming ever more European and coordinated. 110 00:07:55.783 --> 00:08:00.017 What does this mean? -If we look at its origins, 111 00:08:00.130 --> 00:08:04.870 we see that the Council of Europe decided in 1999, 112 00:08:05.030 --> 00:08:08.683 as part of its Tampere Conclusions, 113 00:08:08.790 --> 00:08:13.657 to develop a joint European asylum system. 114 00:08:13.778 --> 00:08:18.108 Since 1999, this system has been set up. 115 00:08:18.237 --> 00:08:22.303 The European Commission proposed the first set of legislation 116 00:08:22.450 --> 00:08:26.309 in 2001, and the member states, without the participation 117 00:08:26.443 --> 00:08:30.356 of Parliament, which didn't have such a role at the time, 118 00:08:30.477 --> 00:08:33.823 approved the legislation, but the legislation 119 00:08:33.970 --> 00:08:37.549 was in the form of directives. The members states had 120 00:08:37.670 --> 00:08:41.141 a certain period of time to transfer the directives 121 00:08:41.262 --> 00:08:43.496 into their national legislation. 122 00:08:43.650 --> 00:08:47.276 The joint European asylum system was then built 123 00:08:47.417 --> 00:08:54.500 via new legal instruments, such as the Dublin Regulation, 124 00:08:54.650 --> 00:08:58.009 which determines the jurisdiction of countries 125 00:08:58.130 --> 00:09:03.089 for international protection claims. The new Migration and Asylum Pact, 126 00:09:03.210 --> 00:09:06.809 which should be confirmed by the European Parliament 127 00:09:06.977 --> 00:09:12.209 on April 10 and the Council in June, 128 00:09:12.357 --> 00:09:15.490 will enable us to have 129 00:09:15.597 --> 00:09:19.110 an even more stable joint European asylum system 130 00:09:19.231 --> 00:09:23.409 because all the legislation will be in the form of regulations. 131 00:09:23.530 --> 00:09:26.809 This means that the members will need to carry out 132 00:09:26.937 --> 00:09:30.829 the legislation directly, which will allow the legislation 133 00:09:30.950 --> 00:09:34.263 to be carried out in a more coherent manner. 134 00:09:34.437 --> 00:09:40.122 This will mean that if someone makes an international 135 00:09:40.243 --> 00:09:47.220 protection claim in any of the 27 EU member states, 136 00:09:47.383 --> 00:09:52.489 the decision will be made according to the same rules 137 00:09:52.637 --> 00:09:54.543 and will be uniform. 138 00:09:54.690 --> 00:09:58.363 For instance, if an Afghan citizen requests protection 139 00:09:58.510 --> 00:10:05.237 in Slovenia, Austria, or Finland, he'll receive a decision 140 00:10:05.383 --> 00:10:08.330 that was made according to the same rules 141 00:10:08.451 --> 00:10:11.763 and is therefore the same. He would either receive 142 00:10:11.897 --> 00:10:13.769 protection or not. 143 00:10:13.903 --> 00:10:18.397 The differences between systems are still apparent today. 144 00:10:18.557 --> 00:10:23.203 The role of our agency is to help member states 145 00:10:23.330 --> 00:10:26.330 to carry out this policy in a unified manner. 146 00:10:26.463 --> 00:10:29.690 If the pact helps to ensure greater coherence 147 00:10:29.823 --> 00:10:32.843 in the decision-making process, 148 00:10:32.983 --> 00:10:38.220 the agency is tasked to prepare tools 149 00:10:38.350 --> 00:10:43.620 that help member states to carry out the policy 150 00:10:43.757 --> 00:10:46.296 as consistently as possible. 151 00:10:46.457 --> 00:10:50.663 Member states have quite a few expectations from this pact, 152 00:10:50.784 --> 00:10:53.229 and Slovenia is one of them. 153 00:10:53.823 --> 00:10:59.529 What does this mean for Slovenia, which is facing 154 00:11:00.037 --> 00:11:06.183 significant impacts from migrants and refugees? 155 00:11:06.310 --> 00:11:09.243 What will Slovenia get from this pact? 156 00:11:09.403 --> 00:11:13.960 If we look at it broadly, 157 00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:18.657 we see that good migration management 158 00:11:18.797 --> 00:11:22.923 contains five key elements. 159 00:11:23.030 --> 00:11:27.289 First, an effective protection of the external borders. 160 00:11:27.423 --> 00:11:33.700 Second, a quick and effective international protection process 161 00:11:33.857 --> 00:11:38.563 that contains all the procedural guarantees for the claimants. 162 00:11:38.697 --> 00:11:44.103 Third, a quick and fair repatriation process 163 00:11:44.257 --> 00:11:47.623 for those who don't need protection. 164 00:11:47.757 --> 00:11:55.703 Fourth, there's the issue of integration within the EU 165 00:11:55.824 --> 00:11:59.090 for those who stay in the EU. 166 00:11:59.217 --> 00:12:03.490 Fifth, we have cooperation with countries of origin and transit. 167 00:12:03.637 --> 00:12:10.103 All these elements must fall in place. 168 00:12:10.217 --> 00:12:14.723 Even if one of them isn't effective, 169 00:12:14.863 --> 00:12:18.763 the relationships break down. That's why it's so difficult 170 00:12:18.884 --> 00:12:21.936 to manage migrations in the EU, 171 00:12:22.057 --> 00:12:27.120 where there are still so many national systems 172 00:12:27.237 --> 00:12:31.183 and things aren't standardized and connected. 173 00:12:31.343 --> 00:12:35.169 We also have problems with the integration 174 00:12:35.290 --> 00:12:40.596 of large IT systems, where we've set up a Schengen system, 175 00:12:40.723 --> 00:12:46.083 a visa system, the Eurodac system for asylum claims, 176 00:12:46.223 --> 00:12:50.280 and these systems aren't interconnected. 177 00:12:50.403 --> 00:12:54.003 We have quite a few challenges like that, and the pact 178 00:12:54.123 --> 00:12:56.929 is supposed to address all of them. 179 00:12:57.070 --> 00:13:01.209 It offers solutions 180 00:13:01.343 --> 00:13:05.390 for the effective implementation of all these elements. 181 00:13:05.503 --> 00:13:13.376 Of course, any decision about a EU-level policy 182 00:13:13.510 --> 00:13:18.217 is very complex. Member states have different interests 183 00:13:18.350 --> 00:13:21.769 and there are 27 of them. 184 00:13:21.883 --> 00:13:25.049 We also have the European Parliament, which sees 185 00:13:25.170 --> 00:13:28.210 these things differently, but this legislation 186 00:13:28.331 --> 00:13:31.350 is passed via a joint decision-making process. 187 00:13:31.483 --> 00:13:35.090 We also have policies on the national level, 188 00:13:35.237 --> 00:13:39.700 and they can be extreme at times. 189 00:13:39.821 --> 00:13:45.654 Coordinating all this, 190 00:13:45.775 --> 00:13:50.340 so we can get an outcome like this pact, 191 00:13:50.597 --> 00:13:54.809 where nine legislative acts will be enacted, 192 00:13:54.950 --> 00:13:58.883 all of which will have real-life applications, 193 00:13:59.017 --> 00:14:01.730 is our biggest challenge. 194 00:14:01.857 --> 00:14:06.009 But the fact is that this will happen, and I'm glad 195 00:14:06.130 --> 00:14:09.403 because this is the next step toward setting up 196 00:14:09.550 --> 00:14:12.683 a joint asylum or migration management system. 197 00:14:12.823 --> 00:14:17.523 However, the key question is how this will be implemented. 198 00:14:17.643 --> 00:14:22.510 If the passed legislation isn't implemented in practice, 199 00:14:22.650 --> 00:14:24.563 we'll have problems. 200 00:14:24.730 --> 00:14:28.615 One of Slovenia's expectations 201 00:14:28.736 --> 00:14:32.409 is that the procedures on the border, when a migrant 202 00:14:32.570 --> 00:14:36.189 claims asylum or international protection, the process 203 00:14:36.317 --> 00:14:39.149 under this pact will be quicker. 204 00:14:39.263 --> 00:14:41.543 Yes. That's right. 205 00:14:41.703 --> 00:14:45.183 Is that a realistic and appropriate expectation? 206 00:14:45.303 --> 00:14:48.510 This is one of the key elements of the new pact. 207 00:14:48.663 --> 00:14:54.469 We're talking about a fair solidarity/responsibility ratio. 208 00:14:54.590 --> 00:14:58.116 The responsibility part requires a mandatory 209 00:14:58.283 --> 00:15:00.889 border-crossing process. 210 00:15:01.043 --> 00:15:04.756 This means that the EU members with external borders 211 00:15:04.877 --> 00:15:08.403 will need to establish sufficient capacities 212 00:15:08.557 --> 00:15:13.543 on the border where they will process people 213 00:15:13.677 --> 00:15:19.076 who cross the EU border irregularly. 214 00:15:19.297 --> 00:15:24.243 The mandatory border-crossing process enables 215 00:15:24.410 --> 00:15:27.970 expedited procedures for citizens from countries 216 00:15:28.110 --> 00:15:32.223 that, generally speaking, don't qualify 217 00:15:32.377 --> 00:15:34.516 for international protection. 218 00:15:34.657 --> 00:15:38.330 The consideration will still be on an individual basis, 219 00:15:38.451 --> 00:15:42.776 but the mandatory process will expedite the process 220 00:15:42.950 --> 00:15:50.756 for claimants from countries where the recognition rate 221 00:15:50.903 --> 00:15:56.216 for international protection is 20 percent or less in the EU. 222 00:15:56.350 --> 00:16:02.883 This recognizes that they come from safe countries of origin. 223 00:16:03.030 --> 00:16:06.329 The consideration will be on an individual basis, 224 00:16:06.457 --> 00:16:14.363 but the process will be fast, efficient, and effective 225 00:16:14.670 --> 00:16:22.543 in terms of preventing the work of human smugglers, 226 00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:27.323 who are taking advantage of these people 227 00:16:27.463 --> 00:16:30.563 by bringing them into the EU despite knowing 228 00:16:30.677 --> 00:16:34.730 that they probably don't need individual protection 229 00:16:34.851 --> 00:16:39.769 but are coming into the EU primarily to find employment 230 00:16:39.910 --> 00:16:41.596 or to make a living. 231 00:16:41.723 --> 00:16:45.763 The EU will also need to open up legal pathways, 232 00:16:45.883 --> 00:16:50.209 so people will be able to enter the EU more easily 233 00:16:50.343 --> 00:16:53.589 for those reasons, for economic reasons. 234 00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:59.103 We know that the EU apparently needs 235 00:16:59.237 --> 00:17:02.616 immigrants in some segments of the labor market, 236 00:17:02.777 --> 00:17:08.336 people who are prepared to work and to integrate into the EU. 237 00:17:08.463 --> 00:17:11.723 But that still comes under national jurisdiction. 238 00:17:11.850 --> 00:17:15.030 The agency plays no role in that. -That's right. 239 00:17:15.210 --> 00:17:19.470 Are any changes planned in this regard? 240 00:17:19.610 --> 00:17:22.523 In terms of its mandate, 241 00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:26.130 the agency can help member states 242 00:17:26.277 --> 00:17:30.043 only in the context of the asylum system. 243 00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:34.830 We're already present in twelve member states, 244 00:17:34.970 --> 00:17:39.350 and we help those countries in various areas. 245 00:17:39.510 --> 00:17:44.830 In some countries, we only help with intake 246 00:17:44.983 --> 00:17:50.542 by helping them to ensure sufficient housing capacities. 247 00:17:50.663 --> 00:17:55.117 That's how we operate in the Netherlands and Belgium, 248 00:17:55.257 --> 00:18:02.542 where we help those countries using housing units, 249 00:18:02.663 --> 00:18:07.043 which we provide for them. 250 00:18:07.190 --> 00:18:11.303 If I may interrupt, it's interesting 251 00:18:11.437 --> 00:18:15.243 that Belgium and the Netherlands aren't border countries, 252 00:18:15.403 --> 00:18:18.776 but they still need housing facilities. -Right. 253 00:18:18.923 --> 00:18:23.483 Why is that? In Slovenia, we also have major debates 254 00:18:23.604 --> 00:18:26.504 about where to house people and how many, 255 00:18:26.625 --> 00:18:29.771 even though we're no longer a border country. 256 00:18:29.904 --> 00:18:34.963 Indeed. That's the consequence of secondary migration. 257 00:18:35.070 --> 00:18:40.936 Citizens of non-EU countries enter the EU by crossing external borders 258 00:18:41.090 --> 00:18:45.123 and then may or may not ask for protection 259 00:18:45.283 --> 00:18:50.070 in the first member country, where they've entered the EU, 260 00:18:50.191 --> 00:18:53.834 or in the second country. In the case of Slovenia, 261 00:18:53.977 --> 00:18:59.790 we have people traveling through the Western Balkans 262 00:18:59.950 --> 00:19:03.303 and entering the EU in Croatia, but not necessarily 263 00:19:03.424 --> 00:19:07.223 claiming protection there. They can do that in Slovenia 264 00:19:07.363 --> 00:19:11.410 or even in Austria, depending on their organized route. 265 00:19:11.543 --> 00:19:15.596 In most cases, the crossings are organized 266 00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:20.850 by smugglers' networks and organized criminal associations. 267 00:19:20.970 --> 00:19:26.363 The fact is that among the EU destination countries, 268 00:19:26.523 --> 00:19:30.460 and this has been the case for years, 269 00:19:30.610 --> 00:19:35.156 Germany receives the most protection claims, 270 00:19:35.270 --> 00:19:40.236 followed last year by France and then Spain. 271 00:19:40.370 --> 00:19:45.597 The Netherlands and Belgium are also high on the list 272 00:19:45.703 --> 00:19:48.970 in terms of protection claims, 273 00:19:49.110 --> 00:19:53.117 so they're facing issues regarding housing facilities. 274 00:19:53.250 --> 00:20:00.280 In 2023, we saw a very real increase 275 00:20:00.417 --> 00:20:03.583 in the number of arrivals from third countries 276 00:20:03.704 --> 00:20:06.754 requesting international protection in the EU. 277 00:20:06.894 --> 00:20:11.540 There were 1.1 million international protection claims. 278 00:20:11.677 --> 00:20:19.043 At the same time, we had 4.4 million people who entered the EU 279 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:24.643 from Ukraine and were registered for temporary protection. 280 00:20:24.770 --> 00:20:30.000 The overall number is the highest since World War II. 281 00:20:30.123 --> 00:20:34.803 So yes, the number of migrations into the EU is certainly increasing. 282 00:20:34.947 --> 00:20:39.060 You have a lot of work ahead of you, but regarding Slovenia 283 00:20:39.203 --> 00:20:43.423 and the debate about housing facilities, 284 00:20:44.123 --> 00:20:48.256 what can the agency do? How are you helping 285 00:20:48.390 --> 00:20:52.296 if you're already helping, and what can we expect? 286 00:20:52.410 --> 00:20:57.616 Our agency is also active in Slovenia. 287 00:20:57.717 --> 00:21:00.696 We've signed an operational plan, 288 00:21:00.817 --> 00:21:04.516 through which we're helping both the Interior Ministry 289 00:21:04.637 --> 00:21:08.330 and the Office for Support and Integration of Migrants 290 00:21:08.490 --> 00:21:12.502 in two segments: asylum, where we help 291 00:21:12.623 --> 00:21:18.980 to set up simpler asylum processes and Dublin procedures, 292 00:21:19.103 --> 00:21:27.036 while helping the office to obtain translators 293 00:21:27.157 --> 00:21:34.776 for some languages and set up procedures 294 00:21:34.897 --> 00:21:39.723 to better handle the situation, 295 00:21:39.844 --> 00:21:43.503 where the office had experienced pressure. 296 00:21:43.623 --> 00:21:46.870 We also held talks of a technical nature 297 00:21:47.017 --> 00:21:51.570 about the agency helping out with housing facilities, 298 00:21:51.730 --> 00:21:57.950 as we have been doing in Belgium, the Netherlands, and elsewhere. 299 00:21:58.110 --> 00:22:01.740 in Latvia, we were active in the intake process. 300 00:22:01.863 --> 00:22:05.303 However, we never reached an agreement 301 00:22:05.437 --> 00:22:11.050 about where the agency could set up these housing facilities. 302 00:22:11.177 --> 00:22:16.696 If we reach an agreement, we could help out this way. 303 00:22:16.843 --> 00:22:21.670 Does this mean financially, in terms of resources? 304 00:22:21.791 --> 00:22:26.864 No, the agency has no authority for direct financial assistance. 305 00:22:26.983 --> 00:22:30.136 We provide assistance by sending our experts. 306 00:22:30.290 --> 00:22:34.516 The agency currently has 1500 experts 307 00:22:34.657 --> 00:22:40.640 active in twelve EU member states covering various areas. 308 00:22:40.763 --> 00:22:47.403 If we look at asylum, our experts 309 00:22:47.510 --> 00:22:50.723 are active in all segments of the process. 310 00:22:50.843 --> 00:22:58.677 We're helping member states with information about the process, 311 00:22:58.810 --> 00:23:05.880 translators, information about countries of origin, 312 00:23:06.023 --> 00:23:10.776 and interviews with the claimants. 313 00:23:10.910 --> 00:23:16.360 We also author opinions, but we can't issue final decisions. 314 00:23:16.477 --> 00:23:20.183 The final decisions are always up to the member states. 315 00:23:20.303 --> 00:23:22.696 We don't have that authority. 316 00:23:22.810 --> 00:23:26.776 According to the most recent numbers made public, 317 00:23:26.923 --> 00:23:33.263 Slovenia had some 60,000 illegal border crossings last year. 318 00:23:33.383 --> 00:23:39.023 Is that a large number in a EU context? 319 00:23:39.177 --> 00:23:43.143 How big of a problem is that for a country like Slovenia? 320 00:23:43.257 --> 00:23:48.410 Slovenia is in a very specific situation. 321 00:23:48.543 --> 00:23:55.450 The numbers you mentioned are what they are, 322 00:23:55.580 --> 00:23:59.026 but Slovenia is a transit country. 323 00:23:59.180 --> 00:24:04.260 Slovenia is not the only country in that situation. 324 00:24:04.417 --> 00:24:10.250 Croatia is another transit country, as are other countries 325 00:24:10.397 --> 00:24:12.716 along the eastern border. 326 00:24:12.830 --> 00:24:17.510 What is typical for Slovenia is that people come into the country, 327 00:24:17.690 --> 00:24:21.496 claim international protection, and the process begins. 328 00:24:21.637 --> 00:24:25.143 This grants the claimants certain rights, 329 00:24:25.303 --> 00:24:29.790 and Slovenia is trying to ensure housing according 330 00:24:29.923 --> 00:24:32.910 to EU standards, to process the vulnerable, 331 00:24:33.037 --> 00:24:36.476 and to guarantee that the procedures get underway, 332 00:24:36.610 --> 00:24:39.990 but then these people voluntarily leave the country. 333 00:24:40.143 --> 00:24:43.083 This is evident from the statistical data. 334 00:24:43.237 --> 00:24:47.303 The people leave for other countries, most often for Austria. 335 00:24:47.424 --> 00:24:50.916 They ask for international protection there as well. 336 00:24:51.077 --> 00:24:55.940 The way the system works in the EU, not just in Slovenia, 337 00:24:56.061 --> 00:25:01.208 when someone claims protection in the next member state, 338 00:25:01.410 --> 00:25:05.656 the Dublin procedure is triggered, and that country is required 339 00:25:05.783 --> 00:25:08.216 to return the claimant to the country 340 00:25:08.357 --> 00:25:10.623 where the claim was initially made. 341 00:25:10.777 --> 00:25:15.683 In this context, the Dublin system 342 00:25:15.797 --> 00:25:20.130 isn't working as it was designed. 343 00:25:20.277 --> 00:25:26.750 I'm not just singling out Slovenia in this context. 344 00:25:26.930 --> 00:25:30.990 People who first claimed international protection in Greece, 345 00:25:31.123 --> 00:25:33.870 for instance, and there are many of them, 346 00:25:34.017 --> 00:25:38.463 then most often continue via the Balkan route 347 00:25:38.623 --> 00:25:43.483 and end up in Germany where they again claim protection, 348 00:25:43.617 --> 00:25:48.860 but the share of people who are returned to Greece is smaller. 349 00:25:48.963 --> 00:25:53.363 Our agency, in collaboration with Frontex and Europol, 350 00:25:53.484 --> 00:25:57.723 carried out an extensive analysis of these secondary movements, 351 00:25:57.850 --> 00:26:02.363 the reason why people go to certain countries. 352 00:26:02.497 --> 00:26:06.416 It's a complex matter. You can't simply say 353 00:26:06.557 --> 00:26:10.690 that it's because Germany provides better conditions. 354 00:26:10.817 --> 00:26:15.816 We're talking about many factors: the diaspora, preexisting social 355 00:26:15.977 --> 00:26:19.870 relationships, the needs of the labor market, 356 00:26:20.003 --> 00:26:26.016 conditions for social protection and healthcare, et cetera. 357 00:26:26.177 --> 00:26:31.070 There are many such factors, and they tend to change, 358 00:26:31.203 --> 00:26:36.360 but the new pact will retain 359 00:26:36.490 --> 00:26:41.516 the rule about the jurisdiction of the country 360 00:26:41.657 --> 00:26:44.910 in which the initial claim is made. 361 00:26:45.031 --> 00:26:48.896 Without this rule, we'd have a situation 362 00:26:49.017 --> 00:26:52.637 like the one before 2004, when the Dublin Regulation 363 00:26:52.777 --> 00:26:57.796 was first enacted. We had "asylum shopping," where people 364 00:26:57.937 --> 00:27:01.196 passed between countries, and no one knew 365 00:27:01.330 --> 00:27:04.730 how many times someone had made a protection claim 366 00:27:04.923 --> 00:27:09.480 and then crossed borders. They could pick the country 367 00:27:09.610 --> 00:27:13.083 in which they wanted to live. 368 00:27:13.223 --> 00:27:16.716 In the context of the legislative framework, 369 00:27:16.857 --> 00:27:19.396 this isn't possible in the EU. 370 00:27:19.577 --> 00:27:26.629 EU countries want to manage migration so that the rules 371 00:27:26.750 --> 00:27:30.956 are clear for everyone, including those claiming protection 372 00:27:31.123 --> 00:27:35.223 and citizens of the EU, as well as third countries, 373 00:27:35.370 --> 00:27:37.583 which are partner countries. 374 00:27:37.710 --> 00:27:45.297 All these topics are causing quite a bit 375 00:27:45.577 --> 00:27:49.930 of uncertainty among the public: asylum, protection, 376 00:27:50.070 --> 00:27:52.983 refugees, and migrants. This is the subject 377 00:27:53.104 --> 00:27:57.376 of public discussion not just in Slovenia, but throughout Europe. 378 00:27:57.543 --> 00:28:00.983 The European elections will be held soon, 379 00:28:01.130 --> 00:28:05.510 and the issue of asylum-seekers is an important political topic. 380 00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:08.536 How does this affect your work? 381 00:28:08.677 --> 00:28:13.036 Is it the main issue in the run-up to the European elections? 382 00:28:13.150 --> 00:28:17.200 In principle, our agency isn't a political organization. 383 00:28:17.317 --> 00:28:21.588 We're a technical body that helps member states 384 00:28:21.709 --> 00:28:28.396 to carry out legislation, which is political in a sense. 385 00:28:28.530 --> 00:28:32.700 Any legislation enacted either by national parliaments 386 00:28:32.830 --> 00:28:38.623 or on the EU level is a political act. 387 00:28:38.737 --> 00:28:45.730 Because of the complex process of passing legislation 388 00:28:45.851 --> 00:28:50.370 and the various players involved in the process, 389 00:28:50.491 --> 00:28:53.936 the resulting legislation is full of compromises. 390 00:28:54.057 --> 00:28:56.736 That's why our agency matters. 391 00:28:56.883 --> 00:29:00.790 In addition to helping countries operatively, 392 00:29:00.903 --> 00:29:07.423 and serving as the members' boots on the ground, 393 00:29:07.610 --> 00:29:12.210 and providing experts to help carry out certain procedures, 394 00:29:12.343 --> 00:29:16.570 we have two additional areas under our jurisdiction. 395 00:29:16.730 --> 00:29:19.930 One of them is preparing tools for an effective 396 00:29:20.051 --> 00:29:22.436 execution of the legislation. 397 00:29:22.570 --> 00:29:27.003 For instance, the agency regularly issues 398 00:29:27.150 --> 00:29:34.362 information about countries of origin. No asylum process 399 00:29:34.483 --> 00:29:39.040 can end without an examination of objective facts 400 00:29:39.170 --> 00:29:43.150 in the claimant's country of origin. 401 00:29:43.270 --> 00:29:48.516 This is a basic responsibility of our agency, 402 00:29:48.637 --> 00:29:52.577 to provide objective information about countries of origin 403 00:29:52.698 --> 00:29:56.850 and transit, which member states then use in asylum processes. 404 00:29:56.990 --> 00:30:02.043 We also provide guidance... 405 00:30:02.694 --> 00:30:06.360 Counsel? -Yes, counsel for countries, 406 00:30:06.999 --> 00:30:14.160 which we help with technical tools 407 00:30:15.148 --> 00:30:20.398 to facilitate certain processes, such as interviews. 408 00:30:20.639 --> 00:30:26.380 For instance, we also issued guidelines 409 00:30:26.501 --> 00:30:31.308 for conducting processes using ICT, 410 00:30:31.429 --> 00:30:35.513 meaning procedures that aren't conducted in person 411 00:30:35.634 --> 00:30:38.570 but using video tools. 412 00:30:38.804 --> 00:30:46.586 Member States have very many of these things available to them. 413 00:30:46.742 --> 00:30:51.608 We are thereby also ensuring that adopted legislation 414 00:30:51.729 --> 00:30:55.563 is implemented in the same way in 27 countries. 415 00:30:55.684 --> 00:30:58.434 Another large segment is training. 416 00:30:58.555 --> 00:31:04.435 We have a training centre where we offer constant support 417 00:31:04.692 --> 00:31:10.810 to Member States through the same training modules. 418 00:31:11.036 --> 00:31:15.567 About 80 000 people have gone through this training centre, 419 00:31:15.786 --> 00:31:21.333 asylum experts from the Member States, 420 00:31:21.454 --> 00:31:26.082 who can use these tools and training 421 00:31:26.203 --> 00:31:31.933 to do their work more effectively in their countries. 422 00:31:32.054 --> 00:31:33.734 Is there a statistic 423 00:31:33.855 --> 00:31:39.017 on how long the process of getting asylum takes on average, 424 00:31:39.138 --> 00:31:42.229 in which countries it is longest or shortest 425 00:31:42.350 --> 00:31:44.991 and how Slovenia ranks in this regard? 426 00:31:45.112 --> 00:31:50.791 Yes, we do keep these statistics, by Member States. 427 00:31:51.108 --> 00:31:56.881 The fact is that the difference is clear on the first level. 428 00:31:57.002 --> 00:32:01.186 meaning at the level of the administrative process, 429 00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:03.658 and on the second level as well. 430 00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:07.348 There is always the possibility of making an appeal 431 00:32:07.469 --> 00:32:10.588 in the international protection process. 432 00:32:10.709 --> 00:32:16.080 This option varies significantly between different jurisdictions. 433 00:32:16.201 --> 00:32:19.373 Certain countries have a two-level process, 434 00:32:19.494 --> 00:32:22.076 some even have a three-level process. 435 00:32:22.197 --> 00:32:24.920 So, countries differ in this very much. 436 00:32:25.139 --> 00:32:28.556 That is in the hands of the Member States. 437 00:32:28.677 --> 00:32:33.897 These processes can take very long, up to five years, 438 00:32:34.213 --> 00:32:37.883 while the Pact is supposed to make 439 00:32:38.004 --> 00:32:43.088 the processes quick and efficient at least at the first level, 440 00:32:43.209 --> 00:32:48.998 so that in the process it would very quickly become clear 441 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:54.882 whether someone is eligible for international protection or not. 442 00:32:55.003 --> 00:32:56.683 Is there any data 443 00:32:56.804 --> 00:33:03.000 on how many applications for protection are approved? 444 00:33:03.121 --> 00:33:05.925 Yes. Last year, in 2023, 445 00:33:06.046 --> 00:33:13.093 the average in the European Union was 41 %. 446 00:33:13.648 --> 00:33:20.744 41 % means that about 60 % of those who applied 447 00:33:21.095 --> 00:33:26.936 for international protection in the EU were not eligible. 448 00:33:27.057 --> 00:33:30.080 In Slovenia the percentage is very similar, 449 00:33:30.201 --> 00:33:34.255 I think it was 43 % last year. -What happens to those people? 450 00:33:34.376 --> 00:33:40.662 Ineligible applicants enter the phase of returning. 451 00:33:40.868 --> 00:33:46.673 The EU still has some problems in this regard. 452 00:33:46.954 --> 00:33:50.380 Returning these people 453 00:33:50.501 --> 00:33:55.251 requires very good cooperation with the country of origin, 454 00:33:55.644 --> 00:34:00.668 because that is the country that takes them back. 455 00:34:00.917 --> 00:34:04.197 That is not in our agency's direct mandate, 456 00:34:04.318 --> 00:34:08.705 aid in returning is conducted by Frontex, 457 00:34:09.275 --> 00:34:12.697 the agency for border control. 458 00:34:13.385 --> 00:34:20.790 They try to provide efficient return procedures 459 00:34:20.911 --> 00:34:24.720 by providing flights that enable Member States 460 00:34:24.966 --> 00:34:28.200 to conclude these procedures 461 00:34:28.321 --> 00:34:33.481 through cooperation with the Agency. 462 00:34:34.372 --> 00:34:38.802 The key thing here is cooperation with countries of origin, 463 00:34:38.923 --> 00:34:41.442 sometimes transit countries as well. 464 00:34:41.563 --> 00:34:47.696 Certain countries cooperate more and regularly, 465 00:34:48.297 --> 00:34:54.906 while some countries condition things 466 00:34:55.027 --> 00:34:58.688 with other forms of aid, for instance. 467 00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:01.059 There are different models, 468 00:35:01.180 --> 00:35:06.597 but the fact is that the Pact will not be implemented successfully 469 00:35:06.718 --> 00:35:11.549 unless returning will be efficient, that is quite clear. 470 00:35:13.010 --> 00:35:18.580 When we are dealing with asylum and these procedures 471 00:35:18.701 --> 00:35:22.721 we are always dealing with a person, first and foremost. 472 00:35:23.151 --> 00:35:29.060 You have cited the report for the year 2023 473 00:35:29.752 --> 00:35:35.127 by international organisations and civil society 474 00:35:35.248 --> 00:35:39.760 regarding practices that hinder efficient access to protection. 475 00:35:40.366 --> 00:35:44.366 In short, civil society and humanitarian organisations 476 00:35:44.487 --> 00:35:46.499 are highlighting the problems 477 00:35:46.620 --> 00:35:49.741 that people are having with these processes. 478 00:35:50.069 --> 00:35:53.420 How beneficial are these organisations to you 479 00:35:53.632 --> 00:35:59.440 and how much do you consider them in assessments, measures, etc. 480 00:36:00.499 --> 00:36:04.616 NGO reports are very important to us. 481 00:36:04.737 --> 00:36:06.940 With the new mandate, 482 00:36:07.112 --> 00:36:12.276 the Agency also received the mandate of monitoring. 483 00:36:12.408 --> 00:36:18.320 The Agency had to establish a monitoring methodology 484 00:36:18.441 --> 00:36:23.776 for overseeing the technical implementation of the CEAS. 485 00:36:24.093 --> 00:36:31.194 Just last week the Agency's board of directors 486 00:36:31.315 --> 00:36:33.398 ratified this methodology, 487 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:38.429 with which it can now begin conducting the monitoring. 488 00:36:38.550 --> 00:36:43.384 That means that we will now be able to go to Member States, 489 00:36:43.505 --> 00:36:49.160 per a list that the board will pass in the coming days, 490 00:36:49.335 --> 00:36:51.169 with monitoring teams. 491 00:36:51.290 --> 00:36:57.578 We will be able to use this methodology to determine 492 00:36:57.799 --> 00:37:01.716 what the conditions for implementing legislation 493 00:37:01.837 --> 00:37:04.596 in Member States are like 494 00:37:04.799 --> 00:37:12.799 and reveal potential irregularities or flaws, 495 00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:16.760 which will allow us to recommend measures. 496 00:37:16.982 --> 00:37:20.463 Of course, the Agency cannot recommend sanctions, 497 00:37:20.584 --> 00:37:23.291 that is up to the European Commission, 498 00:37:24.572 --> 00:37:28.322 which is, of course, Guardian of the Treaties. 499 00:37:28.479 --> 00:37:34.830 But this additional function will allow us to indicate 500 00:37:35.049 --> 00:37:38.322 where improvements need to be made 501 00:37:38.572 --> 00:37:45.416 and civil society reports will be of great use to us in this. 502 00:37:45.708 --> 00:37:50.400 The methodology also enables dialogue with civil society 503 00:37:50.521 --> 00:37:55.915 and the examination of relevant information in the field as well. 504 00:37:56.127 --> 00:38:00.814 I think that this part will be particularly important 505 00:38:00.935 --> 00:38:05.103 once the Agency actually starts monitoring. 506 00:38:06.338 --> 00:38:12.160 We are nearing the end. I have a very basic question. 507 00:38:12.630 --> 00:38:16.380 You have been dealing with human rights issues 508 00:38:16.501 --> 00:38:22.720 and the processes that monitor them for your entire career. 509 00:38:23.076 --> 00:38:28.701 Those standards were adopted some time after World War II. 510 00:38:30.107 --> 00:38:33.739 After certain horrific events, 511 00:38:33.860 --> 00:38:37.763 humanity decided to set some sort of standards, 512 00:38:38.326 --> 00:38:43.060 which were based on that experience. 513 00:38:43.365 --> 00:38:50.420 Now, after about 75 years, some new circumstances are appearing 514 00:38:50.865 --> 00:38:53.532 and these processes are changing. 515 00:38:53.912 --> 00:38:58.996 How different are current EU standards from the original ones? 516 00:38:59.117 --> 00:39:03.020 How much has it all changed, the optics, the rules? 517 00:39:03.141 --> 00:39:06.391 Are the conceptual designs still similar 518 00:39:06.512 --> 00:39:09.573 or are they now completely different? 519 00:39:10.526 --> 00:39:16.193 The Common European Asylum System is based on the Geneva Convention, 520 00:39:16.314 --> 00:39:23.260 which is the basis for considering asylum seekers. 521 00:39:23.431 --> 00:39:29.040 It is definitely a document that still applies, and rightly so. 522 00:39:30.282 --> 00:39:38.282 But the developments and geopolitical changes around the EU 523 00:39:38.403 --> 00:39:43.892 constantly invite new considerations. 524 00:39:44.013 --> 00:39:48.670 We started by talking about the Pact 525 00:39:48.791 --> 00:39:52.940 and how the New Pact, which is in the form of regulations, 526 00:39:53.307 --> 00:39:59.158 is almost unimaginable if we look back to 1999, 527 00:39:59.279 --> 00:40:02.112 when Member States began discussing 528 00:40:02.233 --> 00:40:05.256 the idea of a common European asylum system 529 00:40:05.377 --> 00:40:07.877 and weren't even remotely ready 530 00:40:07.998 --> 00:40:11.787 to immediately implement these regulations. 531 00:40:11.937 --> 00:40:16.523 With the development of the legislation 532 00:40:16.677 --> 00:40:21.410 we have come to a point, where with the implementation 533 00:40:21.550 --> 00:40:24.470 we can provide, if implemented correctly, 534 00:40:24.597 --> 00:40:29.217 management with migration at the EU level, 535 00:40:29.363 --> 00:40:32.423 which would be positive. It does not mean 536 00:40:32.630 --> 00:40:37.903 that a conversation about international protection 537 00:40:38.030 --> 00:40:43.143 or protection of people on a global level is finished. 538 00:40:43.397 --> 00:40:45.903 I don't think so. It is obvious 539 00:40:46.117 --> 00:40:51.557 that certain Member States are thinking beforehand. 540 00:40:51.717 --> 00:40:58.130 They are thinking, how cooperation with some third countries 541 00:40:59.137 --> 00:41:03.850 could be better, how asylum seekers could be handled 542 00:41:04.003 --> 00:41:09.957 near their origin country, how we could bring our standards there. 543 00:41:10.717 --> 00:41:14.917 The concept of resettlement is more than 50 years old. 544 00:41:15.037 --> 00:41:17.810 It started in the 2nd World War. 545 00:41:17.950 --> 00:41:25.143 It developed, because people far from Europe needed protection. 546 00:41:25.290 --> 00:41:30.937 They got it, but they weren't safe there, 547 00:41:31.110 --> 00:41:34.657 despite the fact that they came to a safe area. 548 00:41:34.763 --> 00:41:40.690 The countries decided to bring them to Europe, 549 00:41:40.863 --> 00:41:44.057 on a safe continent or in a safe environment. 550 00:41:44.223 --> 00:41:47.350 In this context these things are cyclical. 551 00:41:47.503 --> 00:41:52.870 But the foundation of Geneva Convention exists. 552 00:41:53.050 --> 00:41:59.077 There were political attempts to rethink about the Geneva Convention. 553 00:41:59.257 --> 00:42:06.477 I believe it will stay the basis for international protection. 554 00:42:06.703 --> 00:42:08.717 The rights of the seekers 555 00:42:08.837 --> 00:42:11.830 and obligations of the states are acknowledged there. 556 00:42:11.937 --> 00:42:15.390 We have to comply with them 557 00:42:15.530 --> 00:42:19.363 and people from war zones 558 00:42:19.483 --> 00:42:23.997 or an area, where they are individually in danger, 559 00:42:24.130 --> 00:42:28.110 should be processed in a certain way. This is the basis 560 00:42:28.250 --> 00:42:31.190 for processing all future politics. 561 00:42:31.483 --> 00:42:35.597 I sincerely believe that this basis won't change for quite some time. 562 00:42:36.543 --> 00:42:38.923 Maybe for the end... 563 00:42:39.283 --> 00:42:44.430 I see the question is connected with placement and processes. 564 00:42:44.797 --> 00:42:48.750 People are saying that they are afraid of asylum seekers. 565 00:42:48.950 --> 00:42:52.903 Do you have an answer to that? 566 00:42:53.470 --> 00:42:57.797 Yes. -You are in Malta, but on the ground a lot. 567 00:42:57.970 --> 00:43:02.530 Do you see elsewhere the same fear among people 568 00:43:02.697 --> 00:43:06.910 who have to accept asylum seekers, migrants? 569 00:43:07.157 --> 00:43:13.437 Different EU States have different historical experiences. 570 00:43:14.403 --> 00:43:19.090 The same as our country had an experience upon the independence, 571 00:43:19.217 --> 00:43:24.063 when people from Western Balkans migrated to Slovenia from war zones. 572 00:43:24.277 --> 00:43:28.617 And in large numbers. There was around 55,000 refugees 573 00:43:28.823 --> 00:43:31.570 from the area of ex Yugoslavia. 574 00:43:31.783 --> 00:43:35.777 We accepted them here and they were handled 575 00:43:36.023 --> 00:43:39.323 in an integrative way. 576 00:43:40.217 --> 00:43:43.943 Children were going to schools and people tried to find work. 577 00:43:44.083 --> 00:43:47.163 This is a Slovenian experience 578 00:43:47.350 --> 00:43:53.697 and it's not so old. This hasn't happened a long time ago. 579 00:43:53.830 --> 00:44:00.523 But different Member States in the EU 580 00:44:00.657 --> 00:44:03.823 have different experiences. Let's look at the Netherlands. 581 00:44:03.983 --> 00:44:08.477 For many years, it was a classic immigration state. 582 00:44:08.683 --> 00:44:11.970 Colonial state. People were coming and going. 583 00:44:12.170 --> 00:44:17.443 Malta is in a similar situation. 584 00:44:17.810 --> 00:44:23.523 I think that certain fears, which could be justifiable, 585 00:44:23.697 --> 00:44:28.163 should be addressed correctly and discuss about them, 586 00:44:28.423 --> 00:44:32.570 communicate. People will be always coming to EU. 587 00:44:32.823 --> 00:44:39.570 I hope that EU shall stay a sort of safe haven. 588 00:44:39.783 --> 00:44:42.557 Conflicts around us are obvious. 589 00:44:42.743 --> 00:44:48.803 And the conflicts in faraway places, 590 00:44:49.870 --> 00:44:52.950 even continents, are happening. 591 00:44:53.117 --> 00:44:57.430 But the EU with a certain level of providing protection 592 00:44:57.623 --> 00:45:05.797 will always be or should be some kind of safe haven for refugees. 593 00:45:05.937 --> 00:45:10.850 How to integrate them in society, how to enable them 594 00:45:11.003 --> 00:45:16.403 to start living independently here, how we enable them 595 00:45:16.590 --> 00:45:20.977 that they try to live with us, that's another question. 596 00:45:21.110 --> 00:45:25.797 In this respect, not only Slovenia, but also other Member States, 597 00:45:25.923 --> 00:45:28.077 should do more in a way. 598 00:45:28.330 --> 00:45:33.783 When we talk about a crime 599 00:45:34.003 --> 00:45:41.023 or some kind of safety, we have certain segments 600 00:45:41.170 --> 00:45:44.323 in the states that should function. 601 00:45:44.577 --> 00:45:46.917 We shouldn't neglect or forget about it. 602 00:45:47.057 --> 00:45:51.957 This is a huge puzzle of important elements 603 00:45:52.103 --> 00:45:59.650 where everything should work, so there isn't an escalation 604 00:45:59.743 --> 00:46:01.963 or some kind of troubles. 605 00:46:02.497 --> 00:46:05.130 Okay. We have to finish at this point, 606 00:46:05.343 --> 00:46:08.790 because the time has run out. This is probably the topic 607 00:46:08.950 --> 00:46:12.017 which could take another 45 minutes. -Yes. 608 00:46:12.183 --> 00:46:16.910 Thank you for this conversation. -Thank you for the invitation. 609 00:46:17.083 --> 00:46:20.413 I am grateful for that. It was an interesting conversation.