WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.980 --> 00:00:07.286 The Government Podcast, Gov.si 2 00:00:11.003 --> 00:00:14.677 Hello to our viewers and listeners. 3 00:00:14.810 --> 00:00:18.170 Welcome to the fourth episode of Gov.si, 4 00:00:18.377 --> 00:00:21.356 the government's podcast, which is produced 5 00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:24.982 by the Communication Office. I'm Petra Bezjak Cirman, 6 00:00:25.103 --> 00:00:28.390 and my guest is here to mark the 20th anniversary 7 00:00:28.563 --> 00:00:32.296 of Slovenia's EU accession. We're joined by agricultural 8 00:00:32.417 --> 00:00:35.356 economist Dr. Emil Erjavec. Hello. -Hello. 9 00:00:35.477 --> 00:00:38.870 We invited you because you were a part of the core 10 00:00:38.991 --> 00:00:42.197 negotiating team for agriculture and fisheries 11 00:00:42.397 --> 00:00:46.716 during Slovenia's EU accession. You're an agricultural economist, 12 00:00:46.870 --> 00:00:50.443 a professor at the Biotechnical Faculty, and an expert 13 00:00:50.570 --> 00:00:53.980 on agricultural policy. Looking back 20 years, 14 00:00:54.097 --> 00:00:58.503 what were Slovenia's hopes and fears in your field? 15 00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:01.620 We need to go back another decade. 16 00:01:01.730 --> 00:01:04.490 The process began in 1994. 17 00:01:06.623 --> 00:01:10.520 In the decade of our EU accession, 18 00:01:10.637 --> 00:01:13.903 there was a lot of hope. Our farmers were hoping 19 00:01:14.043 --> 00:01:17.920 for comparable policies, prices, and support 20 00:01:18.063 --> 00:01:23.583 as those received by their Italian and Austrian counterparts, 21 00:01:24.143 --> 00:01:29.780 while the state was hoping for more modern agricultural policy. 22 00:01:29.897 --> 00:01:33.843 We had to establish one from scratch after independence. 23 00:01:33.977 --> 00:01:38.683 This happened alongside the accession process. 24 00:01:39.623 --> 00:01:43.890 Milk quotas were the key issue at the time. 25 00:01:44.037 --> 00:01:48.950 Would Slovenia receive an opportunity to produce enough 26 00:01:49.071 --> 00:01:53.296 milk to take advantage of every opportunity? 27 00:01:53.417 --> 00:01:56.370 Later on, the question was whether the status 28 00:01:56.491 --> 00:02:00.044 of Slovenian farmers would be equivalent to the status 29 00:02:00.165 --> 00:02:04.096 of Western European farmers. Those were the two key issues. 30 00:02:04.237 --> 00:02:07.643 We know little about the background of that process, 31 00:02:07.783 --> 00:02:11.703 but you've been frank about that. The political environment 32 00:02:11.850 --> 00:02:15.623 was different then. You were trusted; you were an expert, 33 00:02:15.783 --> 00:02:20.196 the driving force behind the group. What was the relationship like 34 00:02:20.330 --> 00:02:23.003 between politicians and the negotiators? 35 00:02:23.157 --> 00:02:25.630 We were essentially a technical group. 36 00:02:25.751 --> 00:02:29.437 Two of us were in charge of agriculture. I was in charge 37 00:02:29.598 --> 00:02:32.691 of strategy and was joined by a state secretary 38 00:02:32.812 --> 00:02:37.131 from the Agriculture Ministry. The two of us tackled everything. 39 00:02:37.252 --> 00:02:41.165 This was the only sector that involved a state secretary. 40 00:02:41.286 --> 00:02:44.346 He was also the only politician in the group. 41 00:02:44.467 --> 00:02:47.507 The rest of us came from just about everywhere, 42 00:02:47.628 --> 00:02:50.940 from the Bank of Slovenia, business, ministries... 43 00:02:51.061 --> 00:02:53.730 There were also a few professors. 44 00:02:53.843 --> 00:02:58.283 Our core negotiating team enjoyed a favorable status. 45 00:02:58.437 --> 00:03:01.956 It was said that while the governments would change, 46 00:03:02.077 --> 00:03:05.542 the core negotiating teams would remain to make sure 47 00:03:05.663 --> 00:03:09.736 that our course wouldn't change and that Slovenia's interests 48 00:03:09.897 --> 00:03:13.143 would be unchanged. Politicians treated us well. 49 00:03:13.277 --> 00:03:16.290 Our relationship was mutual. 50 00:03:16.423 --> 00:03:21.383 In some fields, the policy originated with the ministries, 51 00:03:21.570 --> 00:03:25.443 while in others, it came mostly from the negotiating team. 52 00:03:25.610 --> 00:03:29.383 Most of our effort was about getting everything confirmed 53 00:03:29.510 --> 00:03:33.116 by the Assembly, by the government, and so on. 54 00:03:33.883 --> 00:03:36.543 We had strong political backup. 55 00:03:36.710 --> 00:03:40.796 All the Prime Ministers and some ministers... 56 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:43.276 At first, EU Minister Igor Bavčar, 57 00:03:43.397 --> 00:03:46.423 whose role was not particularly emphasized, 58 00:03:46.570 --> 00:03:48.803 played a key role. 59 00:03:48.924 --> 00:03:53.036 Key things took place in that first phase, 60 00:03:53.183 --> 00:03:56.703 in 1998 and 1999, when we essentially reconstituted 61 00:03:56.837 --> 00:04:00.356 the country, using legislation and our institutions. 62 00:04:00.503 --> 00:04:04.123 We adapted everything to EU demands. 63 00:04:04.237 --> 00:04:07.730 The Prime Minister was also very responsive. 64 00:04:07.883 --> 00:04:11.136 As the scope of our work grew, 65 00:04:11.257 --> 00:04:18.063 the head of the negotiating team had an ever-greater role. 66 00:04:18.237 --> 00:04:23.110 That was my colleague, Dr. Janez Potočnik. 67 00:04:23.310 --> 00:04:27.376 What has been somewhat forgotten but was a major topic 68 00:04:27.530 --> 00:04:30.243 of conversation at the time 69 00:04:30.383 --> 00:04:34.183 was not allowing diplomats to negotiate 70 00:04:34.304 --> 00:04:36.930 about our EU accession. 71 00:04:37.051 --> 00:04:40.536 Why not? A few diplomats did play an important role, 72 00:04:40.657 --> 00:04:44.350 but if you allow the Foreign Ministry to run everything, 73 00:04:44.471 --> 00:04:47.724 you deal with details instead of historic shifts. 74 00:04:47.845 --> 00:04:52.377 You have a hard time talking about money, law, and institutions. 75 00:04:52.543 --> 00:04:57.629 Slovenia was exceptional and successful in negotiations 76 00:04:57.770 --> 00:05:01.149 because form, and diplomacy represents form, 77 00:05:01.270 --> 00:05:04.163 was never more important than function. 78 00:05:04.284 --> 00:05:07.749 Unfortunately, this was no longer the case later on. 79 00:05:07.890 --> 00:05:12.069 You mentioned that you were essentially a technical government, 80 00:05:12.203 --> 00:05:14.743 and you were quite bold in Brussels. 81 00:05:14.897 --> 00:05:18.416 You said that the negotiations were quite successful. 82 00:05:18.537 --> 00:05:22.736 What did the Brussels negotiations look like behind the scenes? 83 00:05:22.877 --> 00:05:26.326 Now that we're older, we can admit that this wasn't 84 00:05:26.520 --> 00:05:29.816 a technical government with a democratic mandate, 85 00:05:29.950 --> 00:05:32.556 but we had an important informal role. 86 00:05:32.697 --> 00:05:35.883 Our views were heard. If someone from the core 87 00:05:36.043 --> 00:05:39.056 negotiating team said or wrote something, 88 00:05:39.183 --> 00:05:43.316 we could get that approved by the government much easier. 89 00:05:43.457 --> 00:05:46.943 These days, it's unimaginable that a technical group 90 00:05:47.150 --> 00:05:50.509 could have such a role in the legislative process. 91 00:05:50.643 --> 00:05:54.189 There was enthusiasm, a country where everyone worked 92 00:05:54.310 --> 00:06:01.400 for common goals. As for Brussels, negotiations regarding agriculture 93 00:06:01.550 --> 00:06:06.820 were always just icing on the cake. 94 00:06:07.023 --> 00:06:11.216 It's the most complicated part. You have farmers in the streets 95 00:06:11.403 --> 00:06:14.663 in every country, and the expectations were huge, 96 00:06:14.784 --> 00:06:18.960 so you also see a lot of emotion but also a lot of knowledge. 97 00:06:19.130 --> 00:06:22.436 We quickly decided that as a small country 98 00:06:22.610 --> 00:06:25.689 entering the process in the last position... 99 00:06:25.810 --> 00:06:29.110 The Poles and the Hungarians were far ahead of us. 100 00:06:29.231 --> 00:06:31.776 We decided to approach the process 101 00:06:31.917 --> 00:06:34.976 as professionally as possible, based on facts 102 00:06:35.157 --> 00:06:39.063 rather than power politics. This turned out to be 103 00:06:39.290 --> 00:06:43.670 the right approach. For instance, when we negotiated over quotas, 104 00:06:43.817 --> 00:06:47.236 we brought our statistics and proved that their data 105 00:06:47.377 --> 00:06:52.070 wasn't accurate. When negotiating over funds, we used serious analyses 106 00:06:52.217 --> 00:06:55.036 to justify each of our demands. 107 00:06:55.183 --> 00:07:00.083 At one stage, the Commission kept rejecting everything. 108 00:07:00.170 --> 00:07:04.196 Apparently, you even explained how Welschriesling is made. 109 00:07:04.370 --> 00:07:10.280 The issue of assigning Slovenia to different viticultural zones 110 00:07:10.423 --> 00:07:14.989 was a major issue because at the time, before such significant 111 00:07:15.110 --> 00:07:18.760 climate change, Slovenia was in Zone B. 112 00:07:18.890 --> 00:07:23.180 This meant that adding sugar to wine was allowed. 113 00:07:23.317 --> 00:07:26.956 It was harvest time, so we told them to go to Slovenia, 114 00:07:27.097 --> 00:07:31.256 to Štajerska or Dolenjska or Prekmurje, 115 00:07:31.377 --> 00:07:35.596 and tell producers they shouldn't add sugar to their wines. 116 00:07:35.737 --> 00:07:39.696 Their wines were very acidic with low sugar content. 117 00:07:39.883 --> 00:07:42.269 This was incomprehensible to them 118 00:07:42.450 --> 00:07:45.736 because one member state didn't want our producers 119 00:07:45.857 --> 00:07:49.263 from the Primorska region to have better conditions, 120 00:07:49.384 --> 00:07:53.396 because adding sugar means better conditions. -Which country? 121 00:07:53.517 --> 00:07:57.640 Our neighbor. We even had to negotiate in Rome. 122 00:07:58.903 --> 00:08:03.103 At the end, our producers who lived on the border 123 00:08:03.277 --> 00:08:07.376 went to Brussels and asked the commissioner 124 00:08:07.517 --> 00:08:10.683 to be included in the same zone as the Italians 125 00:08:10.817 --> 00:08:14.370 because they had vineyards across the border. 126 00:08:14.517 --> 00:08:17.703 In the end, we found a healthy compromise 127 00:08:17.850 --> 00:08:20.436 by dividing Slovenia into two zones. 128 00:08:20.583 --> 00:08:24.557 Nowadays, this is irrelevant because climate change 129 00:08:24.723 --> 00:08:29.703 has altered wine-growing conditions to such an extent 130 00:08:29.824 --> 00:08:32.024 that virtually no one adds sugar. 131 00:08:32.190 --> 00:08:35.996 It's also not done due to quality standards, but we lived 132 00:08:36.117 --> 00:08:39.089 in a different world. It was 30 years ago. 133 00:08:39.210 --> 00:08:42.963 Are you satisfied with the results of your negotiations? 134 00:08:43.137 --> 00:08:45.449 You've got to ask farmers that. 135 00:08:45.610 --> 00:08:48.928 As for results from the negotiations themselves, 136 00:08:49.049 --> 00:08:55.216 and this may seem cynical from a historical perspective, 137 00:08:55.417 --> 00:08:58.589 the most important thing was that we were able 138 00:08:58.750 --> 00:09:01.643 to rely on our own funds in the first year 139 00:09:01.764 --> 00:09:05.463 to part-finance direct payments to a level comparable 140 00:09:05.617 --> 00:09:07.996 with Western European countries. 141 00:09:08.143 --> 00:09:12.129 The EU had decided, because it lacked sufficient funds 142 00:09:12.296 --> 00:09:15.463 and Eastern Europe lacked the budget resources, 143 00:09:15.630 --> 00:09:19.283 to start this at a low level, 25 percent. 144 00:09:19.423 --> 00:09:22.943 The only country that was problematic in this regard, 145 00:09:23.064 --> 00:09:25.630 beside Malta and Cyprus, was Slovenia. 146 00:09:25.751 --> 00:09:29.496 They wanted to brush us off by saying: "You'll survive." 147 00:09:29.617 --> 00:09:33.989 The unprofessional nature of their political negotiators 148 00:09:34.110 --> 00:09:38.060 was apparent, so we had to be tough. 149 00:09:38.181 --> 00:09:40.396 In the end, we were successful 150 00:09:40.523 --> 00:09:43.257 when they realized that we were different. 151 00:09:43.378 --> 00:09:47.169 Our second big achievement was the scope of the funding. 152 00:09:47.303 --> 00:09:51.409 In the period from 2004 to today, we ensured about €6 billion 153 00:09:51.550 --> 00:09:54.329 in EU subsidies, which is remarkable. 154 00:09:54.450 --> 00:09:58.044 The farm sector wouldn't have received this much from 155 00:09:58.165 --> 00:10:01.583 Slovenian funds, and it enabled the survival 156 00:10:01.704 --> 00:10:04.323 and development of many farms. 157 00:10:04.493 --> 00:10:07.757 There may even have been too many of these funds, 158 00:10:07.878 --> 00:10:13.180 as people got too used to direct payments and other forms of support 159 00:10:13.414 --> 00:10:15.508 and neglected the key element, 160 00:10:15.629 --> 00:10:19.481 which is actually producing and selling food on the market. 161 00:10:19.786 --> 00:10:23.453 We mentioned fears, headlines from 2000, 2004 162 00:10:23.574 --> 00:10:26.778 about agriculture in Portugal and France. 163 00:10:26.899 --> 00:10:30.400 These fears were not justified in Slovenia, right? 164 00:10:30.521 --> 00:10:33.455 Yes, we closely studied other countries then 165 00:10:33.576 --> 00:10:37.251 and it was very clear how successfully Portugal negotiated, 166 00:10:37.372 --> 00:10:42.103 but sacrificed its agriculture. A similar thing happened here, 167 00:10:42.224 --> 00:10:47.041 but not as radically, and actually with a positive impact. 168 00:10:47.189 --> 00:10:50.899 What happened in Portugal is that large concerns came 169 00:10:51.020 --> 00:10:54.626 and their whole food processing industry fell apart. 170 00:10:54.747 --> 00:10:58.150 because stores brought their own suppliers, etc., 171 00:10:58.322 --> 00:11:00.540 and the Portuguese farmers lost. 172 00:11:00.661 --> 00:11:06.660 Our farmers not only kept the production, but also got an option, 173 00:11:06.873 --> 00:11:10.093 which economically isn't good for Slovenia. 174 00:11:10.351 --> 00:11:13.350 For instance, more than a third of our milk 175 00:11:13.471 --> 00:11:17.937 and more than a fifth of our beef is exported to Austria and Italy. 176 00:11:18.140 --> 00:11:21.112 So they can sell on other markets, 177 00:11:21.233 --> 00:11:25.828 and it is bad that we are selling raw material, not end products. 178 00:11:26.083 --> 00:11:29.239 Before we move on, one more from that period. 179 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:32.598 What does The Wild Geese pub in Brussels mean to you? 180 00:11:32.719 --> 00:11:35.636 The Wild Geese is a famous Irish pub 181 00:11:35.757 --> 00:11:39.507 under the Directorate-General for Agriculture, 182 00:11:39.628 --> 00:11:41.546 where we always went to 183 00:11:41.911 --> 00:11:46.216 and even had some more informal meetings. 184 00:11:47.443 --> 00:11:51.200 It is historically very important to us because that is where 185 00:11:51.321 --> 00:11:54.559 we wrote the negotiation demands on a piece of paper. 186 00:11:54.680 --> 00:11:59.396 I mentioned earlier how long they kept rejecting our demands 187 00:11:59.517 --> 00:12:01.156 and refused to consider 188 00:12:01.277 --> 00:12:04.438 the characteristics of Slovenian agriculture. 189 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:08.059 So, before the formal negotiations started, 190 00:12:08.180 --> 00:12:12.747 that is where a change in attitude on a technical level happened, 191 00:12:12.868 --> 00:12:16.567 and we came to the meeting and everyone was suddenly nice. 192 00:12:17.450 --> 00:12:21.723 That niceness was supposedly a result of some backroom deals, 193 00:12:21.844 --> 00:12:24.965 you even took some officials on a tour of Slovenia. 194 00:12:25.086 --> 00:12:31.317 Yes, we only took them hiking. -I use the same tricks sometimes. 195 00:12:32.216 --> 00:12:39.020 We took the Director-General to Slovenia 196 00:12:39.141 --> 00:12:43.622 and straight from the airport to the Kamnik hills, 197 00:12:43.743 --> 00:12:49.360 then across Šentjošt and towards Vrhnika 198 00:12:49.481 --> 00:12:52.052 over the Polhov Gradec Dolomites ... 199 00:12:52.190 --> 00:12:56.408 He got the impression that Slovenia is a mountainous country 200 00:12:56.529 --> 00:13:01.073 and that no Slovenian farmer is a threat to European ones. 201 00:13:01.487 --> 00:13:04.155 But the point of the negotiations 202 00:13:04.276 --> 00:13:08.206 was that we had two lists of demands, 203 00:13:08.565 --> 00:13:12.700 which we wrote in that famous pub after this meeting. 204 00:13:12.821 --> 00:13:17.672 On one we tried to set the most that could be realistically achieved, 205 00:13:17.793 --> 00:13:19.793 and on the other the minimum. 206 00:13:19.914 --> 00:13:23.417 Then the State Secretary called the Ministry 207 00:13:23.538 --> 00:13:27.807 asking if we can bring this piece of paper with the demands. 208 00:13:27.928 --> 00:13:33.700 So, we sent Minister But there with the list of maximum demands 209 00:13:34.064 --> 00:13:37.908 and they didn't throw him out, but received him kindly. 210 00:13:38.029 --> 00:13:43.510 A week later the formal negotiations started. 211 00:13:43.631 --> 00:13:45.986 We entered the negotiating room 212 00:13:46.107 --> 00:13:51.300 and the Danish Presidency started reading our demands as their offer. 213 00:13:51.628 --> 00:13:54.057 My colleague Jarc and I just smiled 214 00:13:54.178 --> 00:13:57.588 and the negotiations were successfully concluded. 215 00:13:57.761 --> 00:14:00.550 We were lucky because we were the first. 216 00:14:00.671 --> 00:14:05.755 The Poles were threatening this and that. They and some others 217 00:14:05.876 --> 00:14:09.793 thought that they would actually be negotiating. 218 00:14:09.914 --> 00:14:12.160 The Commission could not afford that. 219 00:14:12.281 --> 00:14:14.889 In Brussels, unless you're German or French, 220 00:14:15.010 --> 00:14:17.819 you cannot negotiate from a position of power, 221 00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:20.186 you have to use knowledge and numbers 222 00:14:20.307 --> 00:14:23.562 and I think we did that relatively successfully. 223 00:14:23.926 --> 00:14:27.003 You already mentioned the green transition. 224 00:14:27.246 --> 00:14:30.605 What does it mean for European and Slovenian farmers? 225 00:14:31.137 --> 00:14:35.900 The green transition is necessary. All of the facts show 226 00:14:37.301 --> 00:14:41.051 that the prevalent system of farming in Europe 227 00:14:41.172 --> 00:14:46.980 simply goes against people, nature, the climate and the environment. 228 00:14:47.469 --> 00:14:49.460 It could be modified, 229 00:14:49.581 --> 00:14:54.484 but that requires radical changes in all of agriculture, 230 00:14:54.930 --> 00:14:57.749 in methods of food production, cattle farming, 231 00:14:57.870 --> 00:14:59.620 attitude toward food, 232 00:15:00.140 --> 00:15:04.360 as well as reducing climate change, 233 00:15:04.481 --> 00:15:10.140 meaning working in favour of the climate 234 00:15:10.469 --> 00:15:13.335 and of course for animal welfare as well. 235 00:15:14.073 --> 00:15:18.369 The Commission set this up nicely with the wave of societal changes, 236 00:15:18.490 --> 00:15:22.157 which are maybe not felt as much in Slovenia. 237 00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:29.940 These societal changes are happening on the Paris-Brussels-Berlin axis. 238 00:15:30.526 --> 00:15:34.291 But the Commission made a very big strategic mistake, 239 00:15:34.643 --> 00:15:37.689 as it didn't know how to present it to the farmers 240 00:15:37.932 --> 00:15:40.400 and just listed radical demands. 241 00:15:40.521 --> 00:15:43.354 My colleagues from the Directorate, 242 00:15:43.475 --> 00:15:46.975 who were at the negotiations, were baffled. 243 00:15:47.096 --> 00:15:50.746 People who know nothing of agriculture just recited: 244 00:15:50.867 --> 00:15:54.153 "Let's have this percentage of organic farmers, 245 00:15:54.274 --> 00:15:57.100 let's reduce pesticides to this level ..." 246 00:15:57.221 --> 00:15:59.800 Of course the farmers took to the streets. 247 00:15:59.921 --> 00:16:03.425 You cannot force a farmer into something overnight 248 00:16:03.546 --> 00:16:06.996 without convincing him first, without seeing the impacts 249 00:16:07.117 --> 00:16:09.605 and without adapting the transition. 250 00:16:09.726 --> 00:16:14.629 I think that the European Union very much failed in this regard 251 00:16:15.328 --> 00:16:17.292 and in the next wave, 252 00:16:17.413 --> 00:16:22.289 which would be bad for society and Europe if it didn't happen, 253 00:16:22.593 --> 00:16:25.510 it will have to do this much better, 254 00:16:25.664 --> 00:16:30.593 through changes in values, new technologies 255 00:16:30.714 --> 00:16:33.601 and support that will make this possible. 256 00:16:33.760 --> 00:16:35.510 What sort of support? 257 00:16:35.631 --> 00:16:39.465 Should perhaps every farmer or every EU citizen 258 00:16:39.586 --> 00:16:44.468 be given a universal basic income, as Dr. Janez Potočnik said? 259 00:16:44.664 --> 00:16:47.224 Or maybe subsidies or money for land? 260 00:16:47.345 --> 00:16:50.820 What do we need for a smooth green transition? 261 00:16:50.941 --> 00:16:54.384 It is an inescapable fact. Environmental changes, 262 00:16:54.505 --> 00:16:58.068 last year's floods ... We saw where all this is going. 263 00:16:58.318 --> 00:17:01.654 The Common Agricultural Policy is 60 years old, 264 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:06.374 but it hasn't changed significantly. Only the mechanisms change, 265 00:17:06.495 --> 00:17:09.919 but support distribution basically stays the same. 266 00:17:10.040 --> 00:17:12.943 This means that those who have the most 267 00:17:13.064 --> 00:17:15.552 and generally farm most intensively, 268 00:17:15.673 --> 00:17:18.786 get the most funds. It is all tied to acreage, 269 00:17:18.907 --> 00:17:21.357 the more you have, the more you get. 270 00:17:21.523 --> 00:17:25.750 The European Union believed that by also tying subsidies 271 00:17:25.870 --> 00:17:30.954 to certain environmental and nature conservation requirements, 272 00:17:31.075 --> 00:17:35.492 it would save the environment, the climate and nature. 273 00:17:35.763 --> 00:17:40.180 It didn't, because for that you need every smallholder 274 00:17:40.301 --> 00:17:45.997 and everyone who lives in rural areas and produces food. 275 00:17:46.982 --> 00:17:52.950 That is why we need to move away from agricultural-type subsidies 276 00:17:53.071 --> 00:17:56.700 to far more socially oriented ones. 277 00:17:57.036 --> 00:18:00.370 I agree with some sort of social payment, 278 00:18:00.491 --> 00:18:03.491 most likely a universal basic income, 279 00:18:03.903 --> 00:18:09.640 as implementing it would bring about a significant change. 280 00:18:10.028 --> 00:18:12.848 I think that politically-economically 281 00:18:12.969 --> 00:18:17.357 it isn't possible without, say, a 20 year transition period. 282 00:18:17.544 --> 00:18:22.739 At the same time, every farmer that works right should be rewarded. 283 00:18:22.903 --> 00:18:27.100 A vast majority of farmers now do not have to do much, 284 00:18:27.221 --> 00:18:29.520 while they are receiving support. 285 00:18:29.641 --> 00:18:34.497 Most farmers believe that the support exists 286 00:18:34.618 --> 00:18:39.886 because they aren't competitive and they need a better income. 287 00:18:40.007 --> 00:18:43.660 Half of all income in Slovenia comes from support, 288 00:18:43.781 --> 00:18:47.659 which only means that Slovenian agriculture is very vulnerable. 289 00:18:47.780 --> 00:18:49.769 And the distribution is such 290 00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:53.161 that only a fraction of farmers gets very much. 291 00:18:53.567 --> 00:18:56.301 Ursula von der Leyen, President of the EC, 292 00:18:56.422 --> 00:18:59.207 recently formed a forum for a shared vision 293 00:18:59.328 --> 00:19:02.270 for the future of the farming and food system 294 00:19:02.391 --> 00:19:04.270 with an emphasis on dialogue. 295 00:19:04.691 --> 00:19:08.839 Does the EC want dialogue or is this just a cosmetic fix 296 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.621 after the farmers took to the streets? 297 00:19:12.223 --> 00:19:14.390 This is a good first step, 298 00:19:14.511 --> 00:19:18.819 but I think that the same mistake is being made as in Slovenia, 299 00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:20.366 where you think that 300 00:19:20.487 --> 00:19:23.601 getting agricultural organisations and politicians 301 00:19:23.722 --> 00:19:27.429 to come to an arrangement and make some small change, 302 00:19:27.550 --> 00:19:29.398 it will have a big impact. 303 00:19:29.562 --> 00:19:34.147 In Europe and in Slovenia we are missing scientific involvement, 304 00:19:34.268 --> 00:19:36.968 that would help by providing solutions. 305 00:19:37.089 --> 00:19:42.125 Policy-making is not the scientists' job, 306 00:19:42.246 --> 00:19:45.281 but politics cannot do without them. 307 00:19:45.507 --> 00:19:49.960 I hope that with this dialogue at the European level 308 00:19:50.163 --> 00:19:54.851 they will also start thinking about profound changes, 309 00:19:55.007 --> 00:19:58.520 because you must first consider the whole thing anew, 310 00:19:58.641 --> 00:20:02.453 before you can pave a new way. We also need dialogue in Slovenia. 311 00:20:02.530 --> 00:20:07.997 We need to confine people for a few months to discuss... 312 00:20:08.150 --> 00:20:10.783 Well, key individuals from these groups, 313 00:20:10.917 --> 00:20:15.630 politics, interest groups from agriculture and environment 314 00:20:15.743 --> 00:20:23.717 and professionals to build a new channel and way. 315 00:20:24.237 --> 00:20:27.323 The President of the State tried to do this. 316 00:20:27.477 --> 00:20:30.337 The first assembly on this topic was in November 317 00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:33.123 and I hope we will continue with this. 318 00:20:33.410 --> 00:20:39.057 Otherwise, unfortunately for political realists or cynics 319 00:20:39.223 --> 00:20:43.350 the majority of what we are talking about here and in Europe 320 00:20:43.510 --> 00:20:47.903 is just waiting that farmers return to their farms and fields. 321 00:20:48.050 --> 00:20:52.663 The changes don't lead to a serious reform. 322 00:20:52.763 --> 00:20:55.550 Not to benefit the farmers or environment. 323 00:20:55.717 --> 00:20:57.817 We witness here 324 00:20:58.003 --> 00:21:01.897 how they are trying to postpone something for one year 325 00:21:02.103 --> 00:21:05.723 or they are trying to mend something. 326 00:21:05.910 --> 00:21:09.510 But it's not enough. -The elections are near. 327 00:21:09.677 --> 00:21:12.317 Yes, and farmers are the roughest partner. 328 00:21:12.697 --> 00:21:16.737 There isn't such a difference between scientist, doctors and farmers, 329 00:21:16.877 --> 00:21:19.937 when interests are in play, but farmers are the most radical. 330 00:21:20.117 --> 00:21:24.803 Farmers are very organized from sociological point of view 331 00:21:25.050 --> 00:21:28.137 and they have uniform interests. It is about the fate of people 332 00:21:28.350 --> 00:21:33.450 with their own story, the income is usually not so important, 333 00:21:33.603 --> 00:21:38.730 there are families, social issues and position in society. 334 00:21:38.977 --> 00:21:43.503 That's why they are very aggressive, when they rally, and can be radical. 335 00:21:43.817 --> 00:21:50.283 A few farmers can make a bigger riot than 30,000 doctors. 336 00:21:52.157 --> 00:21:54.197 You are agricultural economist, 337 00:21:54.290 --> 00:21:57.170 you were vice-dean and dean of the Biotechnical Faculty, 338 00:21:57.283 --> 00:22:01.403 you were invited to be a Minister, but you never accepted it. 339 00:22:01.650 --> 00:22:04.630 At Skopje University you were awarded an honorary doctorate. 340 00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:08.570 You counselled the governments of Serbia, Montenegro and Albania. 341 00:22:08.750 --> 00:22:14.057 You are cooperating with OECD. Considering all this, how would you 342 00:22:14.377 --> 00:22:17.790 asses the food prices and pricing policy. 343 00:22:18.003 --> 00:22:20.977 What is happening here? There was extreme inflation. 344 00:22:21.090 --> 00:22:25.197 We know that there is a war at the edge of Europe. 345 00:22:25.423 --> 00:22:29.923 Is this the reason or was food too cheap 346 00:22:30.063 --> 00:22:33.710 and we have to get used to the new reality of climate change? 347 00:22:33.850 --> 00:22:37.543 How do you see the food prices? -Professionally, we have to say 348 00:22:37.683 --> 00:22:41.723 that food prices were falling for the last hundred years. 349 00:22:41.930 --> 00:22:46.130 It is installed in the functioning of the food markets. 350 00:22:47.063 --> 00:22:51.763 It is a big problem of the agricultural development. 351 00:22:52.277 --> 00:22:57.917 Food is very important for health, environment, 352 00:22:58.097 --> 00:23:03.137 nature and for conservation of spatial balance, 353 00:23:03.317 --> 00:23:07.937 which is defined by farmers, 354 00:23:08.157 --> 00:23:10.610 and you can't turn it into commodity. 355 00:23:10.730 --> 00:23:18.523 The food prices carry all these external effects 356 00:23:18.610 --> 00:23:20.890 and societal benefits. 357 00:23:22.010 --> 00:23:24.857 You can't do it with subventions only. 358 00:23:25.030 --> 00:23:30.030 The prices don't reflect the food. I know people will be disappointed, 359 00:23:30.183 --> 00:23:32.030 but food prices are too low 360 00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:35.637 for everything that is attributed to agriculture. 361 00:23:35.797 --> 00:23:39.297 And it's very important what kind of food we eat. 362 00:23:39.957 --> 00:23:44.643 We can stop here for a while. Slovenian food is more expensive 363 00:23:44.763 --> 00:23:46.877 than Italian. Why? 364 00:23:47.057 --> 00:23:49.397 What would you recommend we should buy? 365 00:23:49.497 --> 00:23:53.337 In average, it is cheaper. All statistical indices show 366 00:23:53.577 --> 00:23:57.057 that it's cheaper. But when we go to the market 367 00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:02.817 in Northern Italy and buy staple for Slovenian shops, 368 00:24:02.917 --> 00:24:05.250 it's cheaper, because we are buying wholesale. 369 00:24:05.457 --> 00:24:08.977 Less expensive food is always moving from one state to the other. 370 00:24:09.130 --> 00:24:13.283 If you visit markets on the north, south or in central Italy, 371 00:24:13.503 --> 00:24:18.417 the food there has a good price. 372 00:24:18.730 --> 00:24:26.123 What comes here and influences the price levels 373 00:24:26.357 --> 00:24:31.357 are surplus items. For example tomatoes from ... 374 00:24:32.237 --> 00:24:34.930 Italy. -No, mainly from Spain. 375 00:24:35.157 --> 00:24:40.923 An area near Valencia is like a greenhouse 376 00:24:41.230 --> 00:24:44.410 with an enormous amount of pesticides, 377 00:24:44.570 --> 00:24:48.590 destroying the natural sources, where the migrants work. 378 00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:50.990 It's a precarious story, which can't be ... 379 00:24:51.137 --> 00:24:56.503 We are satisfied, if local tomato is more expensive. 380 00:24:56.723 --> 00:25:01.057 It has to be. The other option is very unsustainable. 381 00:25:01.290 --> 00:25:05.550 But a majority is buying this, because of the price. 382 00:25:05.730 --> 00:25:08.377 When we will know how to appreciate the food, 383 00:25:08.523 --> 00:25:13.137 the quality of food and will buy it with eyes, 384 00:25:13.363 --> 00:25:17.423 to know, which farmer it's from, when we'll understand the food 385 00:25:17.597 --> 00:25:21.590 and that it's not a domain of influencers and some stories... 386 00:25:21.783 --> 00:25:27.057 When experts will be included in consuming and expenditure for food, 387 00:25:27.297 --> 00:25:33.043 we might get better. But it's a very difficult question, 388 00:25:33.163 --> 00:25:34.970 because values and culture are involved. 389 00:25:35.157 --> 00:25:39.303 How does our intensive production impact the prices? 390 00:25:39.583 --> 00:25:45.170 We are ... -We probably don't have precarious workers, migrants... 391 00:25:45.317 --> 00:25:49.570 In some branches, it's difficult to get seasonal workers. 392 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:55.297 In food industry, meat industry has big problems with workers. 393 00:25:55.557 --> 00:25:57.837 They are thinking about robotisation. 394 00:25:57.977 --> 00:26:00.477 Slovenian agriculture doesn't have these problems. 395 00:26:00.603 --> 00:26:04.317 It is based on family farms with its own working force, 396 00:26:04.457 --> 00:26:08.103 there are a few bigger farms with workers 397 00:26:08.437 --> 00:26:12.303 and a few agricultural undertakings, but they are outnumbered. 398 00:26:12.523 --> 00:26:16.317 There aren't precarious workers, but the average person, 399 00:26:16.497 --> 00:26:24.063 employed in agriculture is being paid a lot less than minimal wage. 400 00:26:24.343 --> 00:26:28.163 Of course, there are some people that earn a good living. 401 00:26:28.323 --> 00:26:34.343 But most people in agriculture don't get a proper income 402 00:26:34.450 --> 00:26:36.970 and that's why people go to the streets. 403 00:26:37.170 --> 00:26:39.090 They don't see the future. 404 00:26:39.270 --> 00:26:42.283 Where in this chain does the profit for a farmer get lost? 405 00:26:42.457 --> 00:26:46.210 We have implemented price monitoring through the whole chain. 406 00:26:46.337 --> 00:26:51.357 From a farmer to the final product that we buy in a store. 407 00:26:51.503 --> 00:26:53.563 Where does it go? Who profits the most? 408 00:26:53.710 --> 00:26:56.243 The data is confidential, we don't know it... 409 00:26:56.350 --> 00:26:59.970 What do you think as an agricultural economist? Who profits the most? 410 00:27:00.110 --> 00:27:03.470 30 years too late. It's imperative, 411 00:27:03.683 --> 00:27:07.757 because only numbers can tell you a clear story. 412 00:27:08.763 --> 00:27:11.777 Our agricultural chains are connected, 413 00:27:11.950 --> 00:27:14.690 but they don't work hand in hand. 414 00:27:14.917 --> 00:27:17.730 They quickly find themselves on opposite sides. 415 00:27:17.997 --> 00:27:22.103 Farmers against food-processing industry, 416 00:27:22.243 --> 00:27:24.217 the industry against trade. 417 00:27:24.450 --> 00:27:31.690 We don't include industry input here, a consumer is an imaginary category 418 00:27:31.857 --> 00:27:36.897 and because of this the price fluctuation is much bigger, 419 00:27:37.190 --> 00:27:41.943 if we compare ourselves with the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland. 420 00:27:42.243 --> 00:27:47.017 We don't have a uniform story as farmers in Italy do 421 00:27:47.237 --> 00:27:49.477 or in France, of course. 422 00:27:49.777 --> 00:27:53.803 It means that we are producing with the same philosophy, 423 00:27:54.057 --> 00:27:58.343 products are of known origin and of known quality. 424 00:27:59.830 --> 00:28:04.830 An important part of raw materials is not from Slovenia, 425 00:28:05.097 --> 00:28:09.777 although majority is. Milk is, for example. 426 00:28:10.037 --> 00:28:13.997 But wheat or meat are not and so on. 427 00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:17.490 The links are competing with each other. 428 00:28:17.837 --> 00:28:23.437 Sometimes one wins, there were successful cases with farmers 429 00:28:23.637 --> 00:28:27.170 or food industry. But in the long term, 430 00:28:27.323 --> 00:28:32.977 it's logical, the key element is trade, 431 00:28:33.243 --> 00:28:36.043 which has market supremacy here 432 00:28:36.523 --> 00:28:40.203 and it can assert it when negotiating with suppliers. 433 00:28:40.297 --> 00:28:42.323 There were some incidents. 434 00:28:42.737 --> 00:28:47.357 Different offices were inspecting it. 435 00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:53.183 But it's not a point of anomaly, but of underdevelopment. 436 00:28:53.463 --> 00:28:57.670 We weren't able to develop agricultural chains 437 00:28:57.810 --> 00:29:01.323 that would be capable to bring products 438 00:29:01.537 --> 00:29:06.503 to the Slovenian farmer and protect Slovenian consumption 439 00:29:06.643 --> 00:29:10.170 and food-processing against foreigners, 440 00:29:10.330 --> 00:29:13.050 I mean our products, and export as well. 441 00:29:13.270 --> 00:29:16.583 We rarely export something, it's going slowly. 442 00:29:16.723 --> 00:29:20.983 We are paying for underdevelopment, but we have to be honest. 443 00:29:21.203 --> 00:29:23.917 Slovenia is not an agricultural country. 444 00:29:24.023 --> 00:29:27.070 In 80% of the country the conditions are too difficult 445 00:29:27.297 --> 00:29:32.143 for us to be big producers, but we could do more. 446 00:29:32.390 --> 00:29:37.270 Mainly in gastronomy and with connected chains 447 00:29:37.417 --> 00:29:42.163 that would include trade too. Some trades started to do this. 448 00:29:42.357 --> 00:29:46.517 But from marketing point of view these are unusual attempts. 449 00:29:46.643 --> 00:29:48.443 "Let's eat homemade, let's eat local." 450 00:29:48.590 --> 00:29:53.303 You have to have a clear product of known quality and origin. 451 00:29:53.417 --> 00:29:55.237 Traceability is the key here. 452 00:29:55.423 --> 00:30:00.463 Look at what Italians, Austrians, Swiss and Dutch people are doing. 453 00:30:00.552 --> 00:30:03.688 we're only at the beginning. 454 00:30:04.087 --> 00:30:07.456 More than 17 million people work in agriculture in the EU, 455 00:30:07.577 --> 00:30:09.802 the average age of a farmer is 57. 456 00:30:09.923 --> 00:30:12.574 You mentioned Slovenia doesn't have large farms. 457 00:30:12.695 --> 00:30:16.794 What are the young Slovenian farmers turning to? 458 00:30:17.010 --> 00:30:23.006 What kind of agriculture? Organic or in the tradition of their parents? 459 00:30:23.419 --> 00:30:26.304 Succession is a big issue of European, 460 00:30:26.425 --> 00:30:28.879 but also Slovenian agriculture. 461 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:33.600 If we can be proud of any type of measures in Slovenia, 462 00:30:33.721 --> 00:30:37.083 it's actually the support for those who take over. 463 00:30:37.204 --> 00:30:42.696 Several thousand ... No, let's say several hundred farms 464 00:30:42.817 --> 00:30:45.606 got successors because of the support. 465 00:30:45.727 --> 00:30:47.964 Two types are on the rise. 466 00:30:48.131 --> 00:30:53.185 Some are taking over farms which used to be ten hectares, 467 00:30:53.306 --> 00:30:59.473 but are now significantly larger, more modernized, even digitized. 468 00:30:59.594 --> 00:31:02.598 They would like to compete in the amount of land, 469 00:31:02.719 --> 00:31:06.042 in the amount of income from breeding, cultivation 470 00:31:06.163 --> 00:31:09.444 with the best European farms. Some even succeed in doing so, 471 00:31:09.565 --> 00:31:13.794 but now they are very aggressively 472 00:31:13.915 --> 00:31:17.561 opposing any changes due to the green transition. 473 00:31:17.682 --> 00:31:24.672 Because they're used to a very conventional system. 474 00:31:24.865 --> 00:31:28.111 But they will adapt. On the other hand, 475 00:31:28.617 --> 00:31:32.465 there's a wave of young people 476 00:31:32.586 --> 00:31:35.730 who have decided to live in the countryside. 477 00:31:35.851 --> 00:31:40.797 This is their way of life. From an agricultural point of view, 478 00:31:40.918 --> 00:31:44.499 they often produce food in a very "alternative way". 479 00:31:44.620 --> 00:31:48.197 Let's leave the computers, let's go farming? 480 00:31:48.318 --> 00:31:50.892 Or they work from home. 481 00:31:51.013 --> 00:31:54.541 There's a lot of them. They don't have a lot of land, 482 00:31:54.662 --> 00:31:59.281 but it's not an insignificant number of people. 483 00:31:59.402 --> 00:32:02.490 These two groups don't see eye to eye. 484 00:32:04.897 --> 00:32:08.285 Young people today are very activist-minded. 485 00:32:08.406 --> 00:32:11.814 On the one hand, there are young people who are for the environment, 486 00:32:11.935 --> 00:32:13.706 for the climate, for animals, 487 00:32:13.827 --> 00:32:16.536 and on the other hand, there are young people 488 00:32:16.657 --> 00:32:20.901 who actually want to farm and produce on a large scale. 489 00:32:21.022 --> 00:32:27.376 This is a radical combination which has now led to conflict. 490 00:32:27.705 --> 00:32:32.213 If this young group doesn't agree 491 00:32:32.651 --> 00:32:37.001 to a unified story of Slovenian agriculture and the countryside, 492 00:32:37.122 --> 00:32:39.478 things will fall apart. 493 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:43.311 Most of the marginal areas will be vacant, 494 00:32:43.432 --> 00:32:50.145 just as it happened in Croatia, we only need to look across the border. 495 00:32:50.266 --> 00:32:54.145 We'll have some excellent farmers, on par with Europe, 496 00:32:54.266 --> 00:32:57.760 but this is not a good story for Slovenia or for our countryside. 497 00:32:57.881 --> 00:33:02.408 I remember these scenes. In the last month or two, 498 00:33:02.529 --> 00:33:05.658 the best farmer was chosen. 499 00:33:05.779 --> 00:33:11.358 He literally had special beds for the cows, heated floors, 500 00:33:11.479 --> 00:33:15.283 and was recognized as one of the best farmers. 501 00:33:15.404 --> 00:33:21.419 Is this the right way? Should they focus on the welfare of animals? 502 00:33:21.540 --> 00:33:25.604 Technologies are very well taken up by young people. 503 00:33:25.725 --> 00:33:28.183 We're talking about bigger farms. 504 00:33:28.304 --> 00:33:31.842 There are some exceptional innovations, 505 00:33:31.963 --> 00:33:34.698 they're adopting foreign innovations. 506 00:33:34.819 --> 00:33:36.923 We haven't developed them in Slovenia. 507 00:33:37.044 --> 00:33:40.782 One of them is the farm in the Savinjska Valley, 508 00:33:40.903 --> 00:33:47.043 where they have experimental floor, especially favourable for lying. 509 00:33:47.164 --> 00:33:52.184 There is a lot of money, knowledge and will at this farm. 510 00:33:52.305 --> 00:33:55.825 This is part of the story. -This farmer said 511 00:33:55.946 --> 00:33:58.193 that a happy cow gives more milk. 512 00:33:58.314 --> 00:34:01.320 But it must be said that this farm is still small, 513 00:34:01.441 --> 00:34:06.418 a lot of support also came from public funds, 514 00:34:06.817 --> 00:34:10.488 its long-term existence depends very much 515 00:34:10.609 --> 00:34:14.277 on what kind of products it will sell on the market, 516 00:34:14.398 --> 00:34:19.094 whether it will sell raw materials, to which dairies and in what way. 517 00:34:19.215 --> 00:34:21.406 We're back to the agri-food chain. 518 00:34:21.527 --> 00:34:25.081 But that is part of the story. Then, of course, you have innovators 519 00:34:25.202 --> 00:34:30.998 and farmers who are experts in beef production, 520 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:35.869 who prepare best quality steaks for the best restaurants. 521 00:34:35.990 --> 00:34:39.804 There are quite a few innovative stories. They give us hope. 522 00:34:39.925 --> 00:34:44.471 When you talk to students, there's a certain energy, 523 00:34:44.592 --> 00:34:49.358 we just have to put it all together. I'm worried about the conflict 524 00:34:49.479 --> 00:34:53.427 between the more environmentally inspired 525 00:34:53.548 --> 00:34:57.889 and the more technologically, economically inspired. 526 00:34:58.010 --> 00:35:00.222 These two groups do not work together, 527 00:35:00.343 --> 00:35:03.356 and without that, there is no Slovenian story. 528 00:35:03.477 --> 00:35:07.785 In 2020, you were selected as mentor of the year. You mentioned students, 529 00:35:07.906 --> 00:35:09.989 they like attending your lectures. 530 00:35:10.114 --> 00:35:14.623 When choosing a career, you were also thinking about acting. 531 00:35:14.744 --> 00:35:17.720 Is acting now part of your lectures? 532 00:35:17.841 --> 00:35:23.939 Yes, it's a similar career. Just kidding. 533 00:35:24.439 --> 00:35:27.222 A good lecturer has to inspire people. 534 00:35:27.343 --> 00:35:31.742 They have to be honest, they have to be a good speaker, 535 00:35:31.863 --> 00:35:35.557 so people can understand them. This is getting harder and harder. 536 00:35:35.678 --> 00:35:38.305 Young people are very demanding. 537 00:35:40.495 --> 00:35:45.612 But you have hope in them? That they could join forces? 538 00:35:45.733 --> 00:35:49.897 Hope in the young is all we have. -That's nice to hear. 539 00:35:50.018 --> 00:35:56.605 Let's get back to acting. How do you use it in your profession? 540 00:35:56.726 --> 00:36:02.493 Being a good lecturer is a special mission and it's very demanding. 541 00:36:02.614 --> 00:36:05.126 Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't. 542 00:36:05.247 --> 00:36:09.270 I try to be as different as possible, 543 00:36:09.699 --> 00:36:12.155 as full of stories and theory as possible. 544 00:36:12.276 --> 00:36:14.393 I have a feeling that young people 545 00:36:14.514 --> 00:36:17.897 don't see theory as a means to understand things, 546 00:36:18.018 --> 00:36:22.691 but as a means to pass an exam. That's completely pointless. 547 00:36:22.812 --> 00:36:26.089 Theory, theoretical foundations, scientific foundations 548 00:36:26.210 --> 00:36:28.995 are the essence of understanding where the world is going, 549 00:36:29.116 --> 00:36:31.941 and then being able to develop new things. 550 00:36:32.062 --> 00:36:34.174 I try to combine this in some way. 551 00:36:34.295 --> 00:36:36.797 Am I succeeding? You have to ask the students. 552 00:36:36.918 --> 00:36:42.333 Obviously, if they voted for you as a very successful mentor. 553 00:36:42.454 --> 00:36:44.095 But that's individual work. 554 00:36:44.216 --> 00:36:47.416 I was the best mentor at the national level 555 00:36:47.537 --> 00:36:51.231 because of my success with doctoral students. 556 00:36:51.578 --> 00:36:56.803 They suggested and then chose me because of that. 557 00:36:56.924 --> 00:37:01.901 This is essential. If a professor creates 558 00:37:02.553 --> 00:37:05.606 10, 15, 20 great 559 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.800 future scientists or farmers in their lifetime, 560 00:37:10.921 --> 00:37:13.212 they have fulfilled their mission. 561 00:37:13.333 --> 00:37:17.610 This means a lot to me. 562 00:37:17.731 --> 00:37:20.387 I know that I can give a lot. 563 00:37:23.002 --> 00:37:25.492 Their successes are my successes. 564 00:37:25.613 --> 00:37:30.096 Our colleague was your student and she can't praise you enough. 565 00:37:30.217 --> 00:37:32.542 Let's stay with women for a bit. 566 00:37:32.663 --> 00:37:35.877 Today is 25 March, Mother's Day. 567 00:37:36.117 --> 00:37:40.788 In an interview almost ten years ago, you stated that a necessary part 568 00:37:40.909 --> 00:37:44.193 of the structural transformation of Slovenian agriculture 569 00:37:44.314 --> 00:37:47.591 is a change in the role of women and children on our farms. 570 00:37:47.712 --> 00:37:51.227 Have you noticed any changes in this area? 571 00:37:51.558 --> 00:37:54.681 This is one of the biggest problems of Slovenian agriculture. 572 00:37:54.802 --> 00:37:59.200 Bigger than the nature conservation requirements. 573 00:37:59.321 --> 00:38:01.973 We don't take it seriously enough. 574 00:38:02.094 --> 00:38:04.596 Rural families have changed, 575 00:38:04.717 --> 00:38:08.567 there is a serious conflict, not on all farms, but it exists, 576 00:38:08.688 --> 00:38:11.100 and not only here, in other countries as well, 577 00:38:11.221 --> 00:38:14.858 between the younger and older generations. 578 00:38:15.504 --> 00:38:21.100 The newcomers are either pushed to the side or demand their rights. 579 00:38:21.408 --> 00:38:23.494 There are mental hardships, 580 00:38:23.615 --> 00:38:29.055 the rural youth have started to deal with this seriously. 581 00:38:29.176 --> 00:38:35.597 This relationship young-old is a newly discovered serious issue. 582 00:38:35.957 --> 00:38:43.207 I'm shocked by the situation of farmers' wives. 583 00:38:45.748 --> 00:38:50.094 There are many cases of a farmer's wife 584 00:38:50.215 --> 00:38:54.492 who doesn't even have her own pension at the end of her life. 585 00:38:54.613 --> 00:39:00.334 Even though the farms can be worth several million euros, 586 00:39:00.455 --> 00:39:07.395 the annual income can be 200.000 or 300.000 € or more, 587 00:39:07.634 --> 00:39:12.790 they don't even have their own account or their own money, 588 00:39:12.911 --> 00:39:17.078 and are completely dependent on their partners. 589 00:39:18.290 --> 00:39:22.915 They are forced into some kind of farmers' wives socializing 590 00:39:23.036 --> 00:39:27.913 around food and games, 591 00:39:28.186 --> 00:39:32.888 which, of course, is completely inappropriate for the 21st century. 592 00:39:33.009 --> 00:39:35.699 This is an issue no one is dealing with. 593 00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:38.307 The agricultural economists stumbled upon this 594 00:39:38.428 --> 00:39:44.197 with some surveys and a small study. We researched further, 595 00:39:44.318 --> 00:39:47.582 and when you know what's happening in the countryside ... 596 00:39:47.703 --> 00:39:51.403 For example, when Karitas spoke to us, 597 00:39:51.695 --> 00:39:59.285 when social work centres and even farmers' wives themselves spoke to us, 598 00:39:59.406 --> 00:40:03.799 we couldn't believe what's going on behind the scenes. 599 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.326 Today is probably a suitable day 600 00:40:06.447 --> 00:40:11.464 for this role of rural women to be highlighted a little more, 601 00:40:11.585 --> 00:40:14.608 as well as young girls who decided 602 00:40:14.729 --> 00:40:20.014 to marry a farmer. 603 00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:25.164 Their position is not easy. -Much more needs to be done in this area. 604 00:40:25.285 --> 00:40:29.285 Above all to raise awareness. As with everything we've talked about today, 605 00:40:29.406 --> 00:40:32.434 this is a lot to do with culture, with values. 606 00:40:32.555 --> 00:40:36.804 In some respects, we are very unenlightened, 607 00:40:36.925 --> 00:40:40.018 we haven't undergone a certain transition of the spirit. 608 00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:47.966 Together with today's populism and devaluation of everything, 609 00:40:48.291 --> 00:40:53.516 we've gotten to where we are now. To black and white truths, 610 00:40:55.101 --> 00:40:58.301 to protests, and, of course, depression. 611 00:40:58.422 --> 00:41:02.791 But I don't think this is an appropriate way to conclude this. 612 00:41:02.912 --> 00:41:07.516 It's a long story. -Let's try to be optimistic. 613 00:41:07.637 --> 00:41:13.030 If you have another interview ten years from now, will it be different? 614 00:41:13.151 --> 00:41:15.657 Will there be many changes in agriculture 615 00:41:15.778 --> 00:41:18.918 related to what we've discussed today? 616 00:41:19.986 --> 00:41:22.828 If I'm being completely honest ... 617 00:41:22.949 --> 00:41:25.493 We must be honest with ourselves and others. 618 00:41:25.614 --> 00:41:29.474 The prospects are not the best. The society is pessimistic, 619 00:41:29.595 --> 00:41:32.404 why would agriculture be any different? 620 00:41:32.525 --> 00:41:37.810 But I'm happy to see the renaissance of understanding 621 00:41:37.931 --> 00:41:43.171 the importance of the countryside, nature, and food production. 622 00:41:43.450 --> 00:41:45.879 I hope that despite everything 623 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.000 this will keep Slovenians close to the land. 624 00:41:50.396 --> 00:41:53.752 I think it's difficult for us to function without it. 625 00:41:53.873 --> 00:41:56.993 Once we lose this connection altogether, 626 00:41:57.114 --> 00:41:59.531 a lot of it is lost already, 627 00:41:59.854 --> 00:42:05.798 we'll lose our identity. I'm very conservative when it comes to this. 628 00:42:05.919 --> 00:42:09.331 Mr Erjavec, thank you for this conversation and good luck. 629 00:42:09.452 --> 00:42:14.121 Thank you for thinking of me. -Thank you. 630 00:42:14.242 --> 00:42:15.842 Thank you for being with us. 631 00:42:15.963 --> 00:42:22.868 You can follow the government podcast on YouTube and all podcast channels. 632 00:42:22.989 --> 00:42:28.085 You can also subscribe to it. Thank you and goodbye. -Goodbye.