WEBVTT 00:00:12.987 --> 00:00:15.362 Hello and welcome to Wion's Global Leadership Series. 00:00:15.483 --> 00:00:17.501 It's a show where we interview heads of state 00:00:17.622 --> 00:00:20.129 to comment on current affairs, to understand their perspective 00:00:20.249 --> 00:00:22.444 and to make sense of our world today. 00:00:22.565 --> 00:00:26.020 Our guest today is the Prime Minister of Slovenia, Mr. Janez Janša, 00:00:26.141 --> 00:00:28.351 joining us from the capital Ljubljana. 00:00:28.472 --> 00:00:31.143 Prime Minister Janša, welcome to Wion. 00:00:31.264 --> 00:00:33.196 Thank you. Good afternoon. 00:00:34.031 --> 00:00:37.312 Slovenia will take over the EU Presidency next month. 00:00:37.433 --> 00:00:40.607 This is a crucial period for the region, because most of Europe 00:00:40.728 --> 00:00:43.361 will be thinking about post-pandemic priorities. 00:00:43.482 --> 00:00:46.797 How do you plan to shape the EU's policies and priorities 00:00:46.918 --> 00:00:51.371 in the next six months and what are your hopes for the Presidency? 00:00:51.492 --> 00:00:52.877 Yes, first of all, 00:00:53.001 --> 00:00:56.865 no matter who is the President of the Council of the European Union, 00:00:56.986 --> 00:01:01.623 the problems coming from the post-covid situation are obvious 00:01:01.744 --> 00:01:06.431 and everybody will deal with them. 00:01:06.556 --> 00:01:12.638 The key words for this, we hope, post-covid period 00:01:13.193 --> 00:01:15.673 are recovery and resilience. 00:01:15.794 --> 00:01:18.437 Because the European Union 00:01:18.562 --> 00:01:24.864 adapted quite an ambitious economic plan for recovery last year 00:01:24.985 --> 00:01:29.517 with our own sources and also European sources. 00:01:29.638 --> 00:01:33.340 First time in our history also to be part of it. 00:01:33.461 --> 00:01:37.836 There is enough resources, good plans 00:01:37.957 --> 00:01:43.689 now we reached the procedure of the approval of the European Commission. 00:01:43.810 --> 00:01:48.302 This will be our priority. And also building the capacities, 00:01:48.423 --> 00:01:52.451 we missed last year at the beginning of the pandemic, 00:01:52.572 --> 00:01:55.566 is also a very important priority. 00:01:55.687 --> 00:01:58.683 And of course, we are in the middle of the discussion 00:01:58.804 --> 00:02:01.452 regarding the future of Europe, 00:02:01.892 --> 00:02:03.685 the conference on the future of Europe 00:02:03.806 --> 00:02:06.790 has started a few weeks ago. 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:11.918 The biggest part of the discussion is coming into our presidency. 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:15.468 So, many tasks. We all hope 00:02:15.589 --> 00:02:19.614 that we will be able to manage them through the physical meetings, 00:02:19.735 --> 00:02:22.924 not via audio/video conferences. 00:02:24.219 --> 00:02:27.397 Right. The European Parliament has also backed 00:02:27.518 --> 00:02:29.733 a patent waiver for Wuhan virus vaccines, 00:02:29.854 --> 00:02:31.414 and more than 100 countries have supported 00:02:31.535 --> 00:02:33.755 this resolution of the World Trade Organisation. 00:02:33.876 --> 00:02:39.315 But the European Union is blocking it. What is your stand on this? 00:02:39.649 --> 00:02:47.531 Well, it's a majority belief in the European Union that 00:02:47.993 --> 00:02:54.562 the most important thing regarding helping others 00:02:54.683 --> 00:02:56.428 is to provide the vaccines. 00:02:56.552 --> 00:02:59.583 Because speaking out about the patents, 00:02:59.704 --> 00:03:04.102 knowledge and so on is important, but it doesn't help immediately. 00:03:04.223 --> 00:03:07.307 So the European Union concentrated 00:03:07.428 --> 00:03:12.977 on the COVAX network 00:03:13.098 --> 00:03:16.009 to contribute as much vaccines as possible 00:03:16.130 --> 00:03:17.876 to other parts of the world. 00:03:17.997 --> 00:03:24.609 And this contributions from different EU member countries 00:03:24.768 --> 00:03:27.343 are increasing every day. 00:03:27.464 --> 00:03:31.130 Now we've reached the situation where we have more vaccines 00:03:31.251 --> 00:03:35.179 in many countries than there is the interest for vaccination. 00:03:35.300 --> 00:03:38.253 So the European contribution to COVAX 00:03:38.374 --> 00:03:42.475 will be much higher during next months than it was planned. 00:03:42.596 --> 00:03:45.115 And this is the most important. 00:03:45.266 --> 00:03:49.485 All other debates how to share this knowledge, 00:03:49.606 --> 00:03:55.186 how to be better prepared for possible future pandemics, 00:03:56.368 --> 00:03:58.491 can take a little while. 00:03:58.612 --> 00:04:02.933 But the most important thing is to produce as many vaccines as possible, 00:04:03.054 --> 00:04:05.301 to be prepared for new variants, 00:04:05.422 --> 00:04:10.268 to have flexible science with answers to new variants, 00:04:10.389 --> 00:04:18.127 and to make as high number as possible 00:04:18.248 --> 00:04:22.343 of the world population to be vaccinated at the end of this year. 00:04:22.467 --> 00:04:26.012 So do you support the patent waiver or not? 00:04:27.711 --> 00:04:35.144 Well, I think that this is not a solution. My personal belief. 00:04:35.265 --> 00:04:39.841 We are of different opinions inside of the European Union. 00:04:39.962 --> 00:04:43.764 My personal belief is that this will kill the competition 00:04:43.885 --> 00:04:47.559 which is also needed among the producers 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:50.609 and in the end we will all suffer. 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:55.345 Right. Do you feel that the European Union's actions during the pandemic, 00:04:55.466 --> 00:04:58.461 especially on this issue of vaccine distribution, 00:04:58.582 --> 00:05:01.043 are at some level counter-productive, 00:05:01.164 --> 00:05:05.156 that they are prolonging the pandemic by promoting inequity? 00:05:06.330 --> 00:05:10.368 Well, I think it's a miracle. 00:05:10.489 --> 00:05:14.348 We needed less than one year to produce not only one, 00:05:14.469 --> 00:05:18.092 but many effective vaccines against covid. 00:05:18.755 --> 00:05:24.477 We know from the history that during last decades 00:05:24.598 --> 00:05:27.777 we needed ten years for some vaccines. 00:05:27.898 --> 00:05:30.259 So this was a miracle. 00:05:30.568 --> 00:05:33.994 Speaking from the point of the European Union, 00:05:34.115 --> 00:05:36.088 I think it was a good decision 00:05:36.209 --> 00:05:38.246 to make common purchases, 00:05:38.367 --> 00:05:43.309 to make common agreements with some pharmaceutical companies. 00:05:43.430 --> 00:05:46.587 Despite the fact that some of those agreements 00:05:46.708 --> 00:05:50.027 were not fulfilled by those companies. 00:05:50.148 --> 00:05:54.519 But mostly, this common approach was successful, 00:05:54.640 --> 00:06:00.132 especially looking from the point of the smaller EU member states. 00:06:01.074 --> 00:06:04.495 It would be maybe better for France and Germany, 00:06:04.616 --> 00:06:08.622 Italy to deal with this issue separately, 00:06:08.743 --> 00:06:14.455 but at the end I think the decision to go together into this battle 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:21.366 was better for Europe and for other parts of the world, 00:06:21.487 --> 00:06:24.699 because together we can also contribute 00:06:25.043 --> 00:06:30.907 much more doses. 00:06:31.346 --> 00:06:34.790 Because we know what's the situation in specific countries, 00:06:34.911 --> 00:06:37.952 we know what's the situation on the European level, 00:06:38.075 --> 00:06:42.688 and the European Commission can also coordinate help for others. 00:06:42.813 --> 00:06:48.369 Much more efficiently than if we were separately in this battle. 00:06:48.622 --> 00:06:50.990 Let's talk about your relationship with the EU. 00:06:51.111 --> 00:06:54.729 After Brexit there were calls within Hungary and Poland to quit the Union. 00:06:54.850 --> 00:06:57.968 How does Slovenia see these growing differences within the block? 00:06:58.089 --> 00:07:00.941 And your critics in fact call you a Eurosceptic. 00:07:01.062 --> 00:07:04.094 Do you agree with this assessment? 00:07:04.215 --> 00:07:06.737 Look, I'm not a Eurosceptic. 00:07:06.858 --> 00:07:13.497 I've been fighting for Europe and European values for whole 30 years. 00:07:13.618 --> 00:07:18.857 Slovenia is celebrating 30 years of our independence this year. 00:07:19.505 --> 00:07:23.496 These days we are in celebratory mood. 00:07:23.617 --> 00:07:29.386 30 years ago Europe was our far-away dream. 00:07:31.662 --> 00:07:33.871 It came true much faster. 00:07:33.992 --> 00:07:37.125 Also the quality of life in Slovenia 00:07:37.246 --> 00:07:40.514 has improved significantly during this period. 00:07:40.635 --> 00:07:43.889 We are in front of our second leadership 00:07:44.010 --> 00:07:47.143 of the Council of the European Union. 00:07:47.739 --> 00:07:51.793 I was Prime Minister when we did our first job. 00:07:54.335 --> 00:07:59.221 It was valued very much at the time. 00:07:59.342 --> 00:08:01.681 We were the first new member country 00:08:01.802 --> 00:08:03.802 leading the European Council at the time, 00:08:03.923 --> 00:08:07.804 before the Lisbon Treaty came into power 00:08:07.925 --> 00:08:10.250 and also the Council of the European Union. 00:08:10.371 --> 00:08:14.556 But frankly speaking, you mentioned Poland and Hungary. 00:08:14.677 --> 00:08:20.658 The public support for the European Union in Poland and in Hungary 00:08:20.779 --> 00:08:24.607 is much higher than for instance in the Netherlands or France. 00:08:24.728 --> 00:08:29.477 When we negotiated a closer union 15 years ago, 00:08:29.598 --> 00:08:33.520 the so-called Constitution for Europe, 00:08:35.805 --> 00:08:39.630 the referendums to approve this constitution 00:08:39.755 --> 00:08:41.735 fell in France and the Netherlands, 00:08:41.856 --> 00:08:45.632 not in Slovenia, Poland and Hungary. 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:52.865 It is one picture mostly shown in mass medias 00:08:52.986 --> 00:08:54.986 and there is the mood among the population, 00:08:55.107 --> 00:08:58.095 and this is what counts in the end. 00:08:59.459 --> 00:09:02.413 Your government has also repeatedly cut off funding 00:09:02.534 --> 00:09:05.565 to Slovenia's public broadcasting service, the STA. 00:09:05.686 --> 00:09:07.736 It has become a rallying point for your opponents 00:09:07.857 --> 00:09:11.046 and many believe the STA is being punished for their journalism. 00:09:11.167 --> 00:09:13.618 How do you respond to your critics? 00:09:13.739 --> 00:09:17.251 Well, we are speaking about the political issue 00:09:17.372 --> 00:09:20.257 and the political game going on in Slovenia. 00:09:20.378 --> 00:09:23.593 I don't know how this goes in India, 00:09:23.714 --> 00:09:28.188 but in Slovenia, when the government pays some money, 00:09:28.309 --> 00:09:33.552 we need the contract, we need the job to be done and we need a bill. 00:09:33.673 --> 00:09:36.232 We are settling these issues now. 00:09:36.353 --> 00:09:41.070 We have a ruling from the European Commission about the public financing, 00:09:41.191 --> 00:09:47.096 and the government finally settled this issue last week 00:09:47.217 --> 00:09:51.533 when we passed the act on financing. 00:09:52.127 --> 00:09:55.420 From our side, everything is settled, 00:09:55.541 --> 00:09:58.689 but some people in this agency 00:09:59.830 --> 00:10:03.347 were politically appointed and they are playing political games. 00:10:03.468 --> 00:10:13.120 This is why the loudness of this is so big 00:10:13.797 --> 00:10:16.182 it came to India, I see. 00:10:17.300 --> 00:10:20.562 But this is not a major problem. 00:10:20.683 --> 00:10:22.168 Right. In the month of March in fact 00:10:22.289 --> 00:10:26.241 the European Commissioner criticised your comments about journalists. 00:10:26.362 --> 00:10:27.723 I'm quoting what they said. 00:10:27.844 --> 00:10:30.326 The EU does not accept and condemns 00:10:30.447 --> 00:10:33.215 the insulting remarks towards journalists. 00:10:33.336 --> 00:10:35.196 And then recently in a tweet you said that 00:10:35.317 --> 00:10:37.849 the Council of Europe's Commissioner for Human Rights 00:10:37.970 --> 00:10:40.635 is part of the "fake news network". 00:10:40.756 --> 00:10:43.312 Where is this going, Prime Minister Janša? 00:10:43.433 --> 00:10:47.758 First, it's not the Commissioner of the European Commission. 00:10:48.248 --> 00:10:51.544 In Europe we have the European Union 00:10:51.924 --> 00:10:53.779 and we have the Council of Europe, 00:10:53.900 --> 00:10:57.289 where also Russia and Turkey are members. 00:10:57.410 --> 00:11:02.173 This lady is coming from this part of Europe. 00:11:02.294 --> 00:11:08.144 Not EU member country and EU membership. 00:11:08.265 --> 00:11:12.246 They are two totally different organisations. 00:11:12.367 --> 00:11:17.975 And speaking about the free speech and media freedom... 00:11:18.096 --> 00:11:23.533 Look, 33 years ago I was a young journalist, 00:11:24.615 --> 00:11:29.169 writing critical articles regarding the communist regime. 00:11:29.290 --> 00:11:32.471 I was arrested and sentenced to prison twice. 00:11:32.592 --> 00:11:35.780 So I know what's the freedom of speech, 00:11:35.901 --> 00:11:38.597 I know what's the freedom of media. 00:11:38.718 --> 00:11:45.551 Don't believe everything you see written in European newspapers. 00:11:45.672 --> 00:11:49.089 There are different newspapers with different opinions. 00:11:49.210 --> 00:11:54.456 If somebody wants to check the situation, 00:11:55.577 --> 00:12:00.273 they are very warmly welcome to come to Slovenia and to check it, 00:12:00.394 --> 00:12:05.212 to read our newspapers, watch our televisions. 00:12:05.333 --> 00:12:08.845 Whoever comes would be able to see 00:12:08.966 --> 00:12:13.875 that 95% of news are criticising the government, 00:12:13.996 --> 00:12:17.399 so freedom of media is total in Slovenia. 00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:20.170 I understand and I appreciate you taking all the questions. 00:12:20.291 --> 00:12:24.329 The European Union also instituted a new Chief Prosecutor's Office 00:12:24.450 --> 00:12:26.866 to investigate corruption cases in the block. 00:12:26.987 --> 00:12:29.258 But Slovenia is being accused of not cooperating. 00:12:29.379 --> 00:12:32.242 In fact, the Chief Prosecutor herself accused your government of, 00:12:32.363 --> 00:12:34.424 and I'm quoting again, 00:12:34.545 --> 00:12:38.890 undermining the trust in the effective management of EU funds. 00:12:39.011 --> 00:12:42.755 Why has Slovenia not appointed delegates to the new office? 00:12:42.876 --> 00:12:46.834 Well, actually the story is a little more complex. 00:12:46.955 --> 00:12:52.975 This is not an EU institution, it's the so-called enhanced cooperation. 00:12:53.096 --> 00:12:57.894 Many European countries are not participating in this network. 00:12:58.015 --> 00:13:00.509 For instance, Sweden is not participating, 00:13:00.630 --> 00:13:02.281 Poland is not participating, 00:13:02.402 --> 00:13:06.518 Ireland is not participating, Denmark is not participating, 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:08.567 and some other countries. 00:13:08.688 --> 00:13:14.500 So it's our free will to join the European Prosecution Office. 00:13:14.621 --> 00:13:16.268 We decided to join 00:13:16.389 --> 00:13:21.096 and we will do it when we fulfil our national procedure. 00:13:21.651 --> 00:13:25.896 There was a problem with this procedure, according to our law 00:13:26.194 --> 00:13:30.231 and because we had some problems in the past. 00:13:30.522 --> 00:13:33.498 We need more candidates for one post. 00:13:33.619 --> 00:13:36.717 In this case, only one candidate for one post 00:13:36.838 --> 00:13:42.048 has been proposed from the Prosecutors' Council, 00:13:42.169 --> 00:13:47.914 and this is why we are repeating the procedure. This is the only problem. 00:13:48.035 --> 00:13:49.891 There is a question I've been wanting to ask you. 00:13:50.012 --> 00:13:52.984 Your critics called you Marshal Twito. That's what they called you, 00:13:53.105 --> 00:13:55.320 a reference to a dictator of Yugoslavia. 00:13:55.441 --> 00:13:57.441 Some others compare you to Donald Trump. 00:13:57.562 --> 00:14:01.359 How do you describe yourself, Prime Minister? 00:14:02.149 --> 00:14:05.946 I don't have such high ambitions in describing myself. 00:14:06.067 --> 00:14:08.832 But speaking of Twitter... 00:14:10.323 --> 00:14:14.488 I think that when we are speaking about the freedom of expression 00:14:14.609 --> 00:14:16.298 and media freedom, 00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:24.399 the freedom of expression of a free individual is first, 00:14:24.743 --> 00:14:27.110 and the freedom of media is second. 00:14:27.231 --> 00:14:31.083 Twitter is helping the individuals 00:14:31.503 --> 00:14:35.167 to express themselves freely on the matters. 00:14:35.288 --> 00:14:39.769 Sometimes this is not very welcomed by the journalists 00:14:39.985 --> 00:14:46.019 or by the media who had the monopoly over expression in the past. 00:14:46.143 --> 00:14:49.730 Technology is bringing changes 00:14:49.851 --> 00:14:52.792 and the Internet is the biggest equalizer 00:14:52.913 --> 00:14:56.187 after the education in the modern world. 00:14:57.192 --> 00:15:03.342 You also just survived an impeachment and there are protests in Slovenia. 00:15:03.463 --> 00:15:06.153 What would you say to those 20,000-odd people 00:15:06.274 --> 00:15:08.692 who gathered in your capital three weeks ago 00:15:08.813 --> 00:15:10.683 to demand that your government should step down 00:15:10.804 --> 00:15:13.076 and pave the way for fresh elections? 00:15:13.197 --> 00:15:15.433 How many thousand you said? 00:15:15.554 --> 00:15:18.255 According to the report I read, 20,000. 00:15:18.376 --> 00:15:22.302 Well, there were not 20,000, 00:15:22.423 --> 00:15:25.997 but since the pandemic started in Slovenia, 00:15:26.636 --> 00:15:28.956 we had protests every Friday. 00:15:29.077 --> 00:15:34.654 Every Friday people are protesting against different things, 00:15:34.775 --> 00:15:37.160 against vaccination, against the masks, 00:15:37.281 --> 00:15:44.524 against the measures we were pushed to introduce to tame the pandemic. 00:15:45.027 --> 00:15:48.113 Slovenia is a free country. 00:15:48.738 --> 00:15:54.251 Also during the pandemic, which was not very helpful to stopping it, 00:15:54.372 --> 00:15:59.594 people have been protesting every Friday. 00:16:00.898 --> 00:16:05.283 If you come to Slovenia on Friday, you have to avoid the city centre, 00:16:05.404 --> 00:16:08.612 because your movement will be limited, 00:16:09.042 --> 00:16:11.122 but your freedom will not be limited. 00:16:11.246 --> 00:16:13.104 I'll keep that in mind. 00:16:13.225 --> 00:16:15.996 There's a major realignment also happening in Europe 00:16:16.117 --> 00:16:20.078 with member states demanding more engagement in the Indo-Pacific. 00:16:20.199 --> 00:16:22.657 What, according to you, should be the EU strategy 00:16:22.778 --> 00:16:26.843 in this new power struggle, a new power equation? 00:16:28.351 --> 00:16:35.798 Personally, I would like to speak about the competition, 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.528 not the power-struggle. But in reality, unfortunately, 00:16:39.649 --> 00:16:43.752 we came to this situation, it's a power struggle. 00:16:43.873 --> 00:16:47.461 And Indo-Pacific, your country especially, 00:16:47.788 --> 00:16:51.671 I think is a key point 00:16:52.323 --> 00:16:56.701 in this clash of values 00:16:57.025 --> 00:17:03.215 which is becoming global on many levels, but we can see, 00:17:04.435 --> 00:17:11.346 not totally clear, but still visible division between 00:17:12.428 --> 00:17:17.156 the free countries, countries with parliamentary democracy, 00:17:17.277 --> 00:17:20.678 with the rule of law, 00:17:21.425 --> 00:17:25.236 and the countries with authoritarian regimes. 00:17:25.357 --> 00:17:32.010 I think the first countries, free countries, 00:17:33.004 --> 00:17:37.107 can only prevail in this clash 00:17:37.696 --> 00:17:42.540 if you win in the Indo-Pacific region, 00:17:42.976 --> 00:17:45.758 prevailing with your way of life, 00:17:45.879 --> 00:17:51.793 so the democracy, the rule of law, respect for different opinions, 00:17:52.100 --> 00:17:56.860 and also not interfering in... 00:17:59.887 --> 00:18:08.328 Not going into historical disagreements 00:18:09.135 --> 00:18:11.135 from centuries ago. 00:18:11.256 --> 00:18:17.720 We have to focus on the future, but we should not forget our values. 00:18:18.297 --> 00:18:22.283 We recently saw a strong statement from the G7 about China. 00:18:22.404 --> 00:18:25.103 It demanded transparency from Beijing on the pandemic. 00:18:25.224 --> 00:18:26.894 It also called out the Communist Party 00:18:27.015 --> 00:18:29.462 for human rights violations in Xinjiang and Hong Kong. 00:18:29.583 --> 00:18:31.554 Some European leaders signed this statement. 00:18:31.675 --> 00:18:34.301 Do you believe that Europe as a whole and the European Union 00:18:34.422 --> 00:18:39.011 has done enough to contain the growing threat from China? 00:18:39.132 --> 00:18:42.243 Frankly speaking, no. 00:18:42.364 --> 00:18:46.564 As many times in history, 00:18:46.685 --> 00:18:49.919 especially in the last two centuries, 00:18:50.040 --> 00:18:56.056 we are seeing an understatement of the situation, 00:18:56.177 --> 00:18:59.905 we are seeing behaviour 00:19:00.026 --> 00:19:05.943 where the values come second and the economic interests come first. 00:19:07.628 --> 00:19:11.698 I think we have to change these priorities. 00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:14.111 Values first and economic interests, 00:19:14.232 --> 00:19:16.778 which are of course important, second. 00:19:16.899 --> 00:19:21.102 We can disagree, we can have different values, 00:19:21.455 --> 00:19:23.455 we can still make trade. 00:19:24.181 --> 00:19:29.639 This is how life has been throughout history. 00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:32.661 But there are some limits 00:19:32.782 --> 00:19:39.294 and I welcome the conclusions from the G7 00:19:39.522 --> 00:19:44.529 and also the communique from the recent NATO summit 00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:47.074 we held in Brussels. 00:19:47.753 --> 00:19:50.638 Because, maybe for the first time, 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:57.336 the freedom-loving countries are taking China seriously. 00:19:57.457 --> 00:20:01.741 Are starting to take China seriously. 00:20:02.428 --> 00:20:04.459 In all of its dimensions. 00:20:04.580 --> 00:20:07.063 Sure. What then do you make of statements 00:20:07.184 --> 00:20:10.667 like the one that came from French president Emmanuel Macron, who said: 00:20:10.791 --> 00:20:16.285 We don't share a border with China, so for us China is not a threat. 00:20:16.406 --> 00:20:18.816 The world is global today. 00:20:19.498 --> 00:20:22.537 And China is very present in Europe. 00:20:22.658 --> 00:20:27.315 It has an even stronger presence in our neighbourhood, 00:20:27.436 --> 00:20:30.722 in Africa, in the Mediterranean basin. 00:20:30.985 --> 00:20:36.698 We don't have a border with China, but what are the borders now? 00:20:37.311 --> 00:20:41.877 It's different if China is your bordering country 00:20:41.998 --> 00:20:46.381 and you have some problems, as you well know, 00:20:47.022 --> 00:20:51.306 but China is a global power. 00:20:51.427 --> 00:20:55.375 It's a much more important challenger 00:20:55.496 --> 00:20:58.801 than Russia or some other countries. 00:20:58.922 --> 00:21:05.474 I think that the European Union, the United States, India, 00:21:05.595 --> 00:21:09.573 Japan, Australia and other countries 00:21:10.228 --> 00:21:17.128 have to cooperate and approach China together. 00:21:17.249 --> 00:21:20.930 I think that if we are strong, if we are determined, 00:21:21.051 --> 00:21:23.885 if we are clear about our values, 00:21:24.006 --> 00:21:27.199 we can deal with China peacefully, 00:21:27.320 --> 00:21:33.427 we can make trade, but they have to know where the limits are. 00:21:34.737 --> 00:21:37.917 The European Union has been accused of basically sitting on the fence. 00:21:38.038 --> 00:21:41.614 They want to contain China, but they also want to do business with China. 00:21:41.735 --> 00:21:43.767 As you take over the EU Presidency, 00:21:43.888 --> 00:21:46.916 will this be one of your top agenda points to ensure 00:21:47.037 --> 00:21:51.315 that there is clarity of policy vis-a-vis Beijing? 00:21:51.821 --> 00:21:55.367 Look, I'm not against doing business with China. 00:21:55.488 --> 00:21:59.806 But I'm against crossing the lines. 00:22:00.038 --> 00:22:06.848 One of the lines we are trying to determine now. 00:22:06.969 --> 00:22:11.831 In Europe, we are speaking about the so-called strategic autonomy. 00:22:11.952 --> 00:22:17.073 We saw last year that almost everything we needed 00:22:17.194 --> 00:22:22.781 to tame the pandemic in the first wave was produced in China. 00:22:23.896 --> 00:22:25.998 Not in Europe. 00:22:26.193 --> 00:22:30.471 Small amounts in India and some other parts of the world. 00:22:30.592 --> 00:22:37.284 Now Europe is building capacities not to be dependant 00:22:37.608 --> 00:22:41.100 on other parts of the world when we are speaking about 00:22:41.221 --> 00:22:46.425 personal protective equipment, critical medicine equipment, 00:22:46.561 --> 00:22:51.721 vaccines, everything you need when the crisis is coming. 00:22:51.842 --> 00:22:54.799 We are also discussing and I hope we will be successful, 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:59.229 this is also one of our priorities next half of the year, 00:22:59.350 --> 00:23:01.031 cybersecurity. 00:23:01.152 --> 00:23:07.218 We are also discussing how to be more careful with the technology, 00:23:07.339 --> 00:23:13.615 which is very needed, because the cyber threats are second to nuclear. 00:23:13.736 --> 00:23:17.356 We have to be aware of that. For the developed countries, 00:23:17.477 --> 00:23:20.029 for the modern civilisation, 00:23:20.150 --> 00:23:27.863 cyber attacks can cause more damage than any kind of classical weapons. 00:23:27.984 --> 00:23:35.817 It's a threat second to nuclear and we have to deal with it like that. 00:23:35.938 --> 00:23:39.896 But you are right, the discussion has started, 00:23:40.017 --> 00:23:46.536 we are not yet there, but I'm an optimist. 00:23:46.657 --> 00:23:48.657 Within few years, 00:23:48.949 --> 00:23:54.382 the situation will change and the lines will be very clear. 00:23:54.503 --> 00:24:00.035 After that real negotiations with China will be possible, 00:24:00.159 --> 00:24:04.183 and this is crucial to preserve the world peace. 00:24:05.089 --> 00:24:09.824 Do you believe the US under the current leadership is... 00:24:09.945 --> 00:24:12.332 As they say, America is back 00:24:12.453 --> 00:24:14.893 and is in a position to lead a global effort 00:24:15.014 --> 00:24:18.823 to make sure that we have a rules-based order. 00:24:21.163 --> 00:24:27.878 Well, I think that America is the most important 00:24:27.999 --> 00:24:35.008 among this democratic block of the countries, 00:24:35.401 --> 00:24:39.199 but the situation we face is not the same 00:24:39.921 --> 00:24:42.459 as it was during the Cold War. 00:24:43.342 --> 00:24:48.277 At that time the United States were more or less strong enough 00:24:48.398 --> 00:24:51.303 to deal with nuclear threats 00:24:51.424 --> 00:24:54.861 and other threats coming from this cold division. 00:24:54.982 --> 00:24:58.092 Currently it's not the same. 00:24:58.213 --> 00:25:05.314 If you look at the figures, the man power, technology and so on, 00:25:05.825 --> 00:25:13.162 I think that only the North America, the European Union or Europe, 00:25:13.335 --> 00:25:18.574 and India, Japan, Australia and some other countries together 00:25:19.270 --> 00:25:22.200 can make a real difference. 00:25:22.321 --> 00:25:25.014 Not the United States alone. 00:25:25.135 --> 00:25:30.353 But without the United States the whole block is not sufficient. 00:25:30.474 --> 00:25:35.443 What role do you see for India in this changing world order? 00:25:36.862 --> 00:25:39.827 A growing role, a crucial role. 00:25:39.948 --> 00:25:45.446 I said at the beginning that even the North Atlantic Alliance, 00:25:45.567 --> 00:25:49.659 so the North America and Europe together, 00:25:50.199 --> 00:25:54.394 is not enough. 00:25:54.515 --> 00:25:59.928 At least India has to join this club, and I hope this will happen. 00:26:00.049 --> 00:26:05.688 We don't need something we had during the Cold War 00:26:07.591 --> 00:26:12.316 or the beginning of the Cold War, new NATO, including India and so on. 00:26:12.437 --> 00:26:17.028 No, we need a flexible alliance 00:26:17.651 --> 00:26:19.764 where India is included, 00:26:19.885 --> 00:26:22.681 and I think that the negotiations going on 00:26:22.802 --> 00:26:26.940 between the European Union and India on the free trade agreement 00:26:27.061 --> 00:26:32.021 and other agreements on the table are crucial on this path. 00:26:32.142 --> 00:26:35.880 We are in favour of these negotiations. 00:26:36.001 --> 00:26:40.430 I think it's not only business as usual, 00:26:40.551 --> 00:26:43.057 it's not only about the economic interest, 00:26:43.178 --> 00:26:48.476 it's about the strategic interest of Europe and India together. 00:26:48.726 --> 00:26:51.950 Right. Slovenia in fact was one of the European countries 00:26:52.071 --> 00:26:54.938 that came to India's help during the second wave of this pandemic. 00:26:55.059 --> 00:26:58.897 How do you see this relationship going forward? 00:26:59.597 --> 00:27:02.858 I'm glad we were able to help a little. 00:27:02.979 --> 00:27:07.592 But otherwise I think that the European response 00:27:07.713 --> 00:27:10.568 was not as fast as it should be. 00:27:11.828 --> 00:27:15.620 The one excuse is that at that time we were still in the middle 00:27:15.741 --> 00:27:20.401 of the spring wave of the pandemic, dealing with our problems. 00:27:20.522 --> 00:27:26.054 Our neighbours had a difficult situation, Slovenia included, 00:27:26.175 --> 00:27:28.723 at the beginning of this year. 00:27:30.140 --> 00:27:36.807 But we had a very good discussion with your Prime Minister 00:27:36.928 --> 00:27:42.926 during the Porto Summit and I think that... 00:27:47.380 --> 00:27:54.398 After this summit some things are very clear now. 00:27:54.519 --> 00:28:00.550 Slovenia wants to be a part of this cooperation. 00:28:00.671 --> 00:28:07.191 We are aware of the importance of India currently 00:28:07.312 --> 00:28:10.419 and even more in the future. 00:28:10.833 --> 00:28:14.655 So consider Slovenia a big friend 00:28:14.776 --> 00:28:19.222 of the good relations between India and the European Union. 00:28:19.490 --> 00:28:22.321 That's very good to hear. Slovenia is also slowly reopening 00:28:22.442 --> 00:28:24.485 its borders to tourists and you just told me 00:28:24.606 --> 00:28:26.498 I can come there in two weeks from now. 00:28:26.619 --> 00:28:28.828 You also adopted different levels of restrictions for tourists 00:28:28.949 --> 00:28:31.454 based on which country they're coming from. 00:28:31.575 --> 00:28:33.622 How does this tie in with the EU-proposed 00:28:33.743 --> 00:28:35.510 digital covid certificate system 00:28:35.631 --> 00:28:37.844 and would you push to extend these certificates 00:28:37.965 --> 00:28:41.230 to non-EU nations like the United States? 00:28:41.351 --> 00:28:45.747 Actually, I'm very glad, and it was a small miracle we agreed so fast, 00:28:45.868 --> 00:28:49.448 that the European Union has introduced the EU pass 00:28:49.569 --> 00:28:54.384 or the digital green certificate as it was called before. 00:28:56.500 --> 00:29:02.408 You know, making a common approach inside the European Union, 00:29:02.587 --> 00:29:05.176 which is also the first step 00:29:05.445 --> 00:29:08.513 to a common approach towards the third countries. 00:29:08.634 --> 00:29:12.259 I hope that the European Union, 00:29:12.861 --> 00:29:17.318 on behalf of all member states, 00:29:17.715 --> 00:29:23.747 will negotiate the same approach with as many third countries as possible 00:29:23.868 --> 00:29:26.508 during next weeks and months. 00:29:26.907 --> 00:29:34.386 Not for every single EU member country to negotiate with everybody outside, 00:29:34.507 --> 00:29:36.683 but to join forces. 00:29:36.804 --> 00:29:40.598 And as I said before, this EU pass is a good basis, 00:29:40.719 --> 00:29:45.671 is a first step which is making this common approach possible. 00:29:45.792 --> 00:29:48.256 I hope that... 00:29:48.590 --> 00:29:52.974 I believe that if you come to Slovenia in August or September, 00:29:53.095 --> 00:29:59.026 you will be able to enter the country and the whole European Union 00:29:59.147 --> 00:30:02.305 according to a very simple procedure. 00:30:03.793 --> 00:30:08.381 We proposed, even before we reached this agreement, 00:30:08.502 --> 00:30:16.543 that we should confirm any kind of certificate from the third countries 00:30:16.970 --> 00:30:23.726 where similar standards are used for fighting the pandemic. 00:30:24.208 --> 00:30:29.620 So if you're vaccinated or tested 00:30:29.934 --> 00:30:36.058 and you have some paper or digital proof that this is true, 00:30:36.413 --> 00:30:38.161 you're welcome. 00:30:38.282 --> 00:30:41.689 Right. I know this pandemic has been a test of leaders 00:30:41.810 --> 00:30:43.386 and leadership the world over. 00:30:43.507 --> 00:30:47.817 Different countries have done according to their capacity. 00:30:47.938 --> 00:30:51.607 What would you say about India's role globally in fighting the pandemic, 00:30:51.728 --> 00:30:54.648 from sending medicines to vaccines? 00:30:56.370 --> 00:31:02.294 I think that when we started with the vaccination, 00:31:02.415 --> 00:31:07.575 there was a huge interest and a very little supply. 00:31:08.235 --> 00:31:15.539 A small number of doses coming from the common European purchasing. 00:31:16.277 --> 00:31:19.269 We have all been watching India, 00:31:20.582 --> 00:31:26.690 because we see that India is a very big producer. 00:31:26.811 --> 00:31:31.749 Not only of specific vaccines, but also of the ingredients. 00:31:32.408 --> 00:31:39.470 And there was this discussion among us 00:31:39.591 --> 00:31:44.333 how to make this cooperation faster, closer and so on. 00:31:44.653 --> 00:31:52.007 Then unfortunately India was hit by the delta variant. 00:31:54.842 --> 00:31:58.627 It was a very severe situation 00:31:58.872 --> 00:32:03.212 and the tide turned, so you needed help. 00:32:03.828 --> 00:32:07.374 But I think that when we discussed how to help India, 00:32:07.495 --> 00:32:11.011 we all remembered that in the beginning 00:32:11.132 --> 00:32:16.336 India was in the supply part of the chain. 00:32:16.457 --> 00:32:24.081 A country which helped a lot to neighbours and to all others. 00:32:24.202 --> 00:32:30.230 And which was also able to organise its science, 00:32:30.351 --> 00:32:35.927 its pharmaceutical companies and production capacities 00:32:36.092 --> 00:32:38.334 to produce as many vaccines as possible 00:32:38.455 --> 00:32:41.074 in as short a time as possible. 00:32:41.195 --> 00:32:45.887 This is a question I should have started with, but I'll end with it. 00:32:46.008 --> 00:32:48.935 Post 18 months of the pandemic, Prime Minister Janša, 00:32:49.056 --> 00:32:53.068 how are you doing, how are the people of Slovenia doing? 00:32:53.189 --> 00:32:57.146 Currently they're relaxing. We are all relaxing. 00:32:58.634 --> 00:33:01.018 Coincidentally, as I said before, 00:33:01.139 --> 00:33:04.679 we are celebrating 30 years of our independence, 00:33:04.800 --> 00:33:07.472 our 30th birthday, 00:33:07.612 --> 00:33:12.761 so the mood is quite good because of this. 00:33:12.882 --> 00:33:17.662 We're taking over the Presidency of the Council of the European Union 00:33:17.897 --> 00:33:21.977 and we are also exiting the epidemic, 00:33:22.098 --> 00:33:25.409 so the numbers are going down every day. 00:33:26.281 --> 00:33:30.980 Yesterday was the first day after October last year 00:33:31.482 --> 00:33:37.641 when we didn't have a single death case from covid. 00:33:38.076 --> 00:33:40.857 This was something to celebrate. 00:33:41.239 --> 00:33:45.824 The supply of the vaccines is increasing, 00:33:45.945 --> 00:33:49.320 people are thinking about vacations, 00:33:49.441 --> 00:33:54.465 the summer is coming, so the mood is OK. 00:33:54.586 --> 00:33:57.943 We're also opening touristic facilities. 00:33:58.482 --> 00:34:03.171 According to the government decision from yesterday, 00:34:03.292 --> 00:34:08.010 we're giving everybody a touristic voucher 00:34:08.397 --> 00:34:15.745 for 100 euros for touristic and cultural events. 00:34:16.461 --> 00:34:24.434 The mood is 100% better than it was during the year. 00:34:25.109 --> 00:34:27.312 You're welcome. -That sounds very good. 00:34:27.433 --> 00:34:30.675 Thank you very much and happy birthday to your country. 00:34:30.796 --> 00:34:32.429 Thank you for joining us 00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:36.432 and for taking all the questions that came your way. -Thank you very much.